Some thought on posting photographs

Is this:
http://www.sportinggun.co.uk/guns/284737/Purdey_Sporter_shotgun_review.html
the site for the Purdey gun being discussed (from Dec 2008)?
Gary

I believe this forum (and a couple others as well)provides a wealth of information and provides invaluable guidence to learning the art of engraving. Some individuals have natural ability with thier hands which enable mastering the techniques of engraving with less effort. Others have a natural talent for the art aspects. Some struggle with both, others with neighter.

There have been posts that have provided a wealth of information presented here and I would personally and profoundly like to thank those who participated. A wonderful example is the recent posts centered around a design by Arnaud Van Tilburgh. That thread with its 113 posts and 43 illustrations is such a wealth of information on design that it should become a must read for each of us, a totorial of design-Many thanks to you all.

Yep, that's the link Gary....

Arnaud's thread has to be one of the most interesting as it's an unbroken one. That's to say that he posted his ideas, got input from others, learned from that input and changed the design. But as we can see, it wasn't just a case of come up with a design and cut it a couple of days later. We can actually see Arnaud's development, not only of his designs but his thought processes too. This is what has made it such an interesting and thought provoking thread; it's the continuance over a period of time that has gripped everyone.

SamW, I know just where you are coming from with your comments. I was lucky enough to be my father's apprentice, but this wasn't an easy ride. Bear in mind I started engraving in 1978 and it was only 5 years ago that when I showed the old man something I'd done he'd say "Yes, that's good!" Until then it was always a case of "If you just change this slightly......." and boy, that could be soul destroying. But I knew he only had my best interests at heart even though it was hard to swallow at times.

So I know where you rookies are coming from and I understand how intimidating critiques can be.

Marcus I will try to resume this, because I think I have an answer.

The Café was an idea of Sam to popular the art of engraving.
So this forum as brought some master engravers together who were willing to share some of their skills to help each other and the novices.

As you take my starting tread “ another design for my pocketknifeâ€￾ as an example of making progress, it is as you say because all the progress of it is in one tread, that resulted in interaction.
And as I wrote down my thoughts and showed the path I was going, the tread became more valuable, not only for me, but for all of us I think.

I could have started a new post every time, even with the same title, but than it would not have been that interesting.

I have been on other Forums, and there you read in the “NEW MEMBERS START HERE - Forum Rules & Guidelinesâ€￾ that you only start a new tread if it is worth to start one, otherwise you stay with one you already started or use an "array/collectables" tread.
And for those who only want to show and share some work, there are “array/collectable" treads (verzamel treads in Dutch)
There could be "array/collectables" topic for lettering, technique, design etc. They are good to show something without asking to much comments.

It would increase the numbers of topics, make them more organized and more interesting.
All they who wants to have support on the way to their progress or struggles, or if they have something interesting to show or tell, starts a new tread. Like a small or big tutorial.

Starting a tread with one design, than another with the second design and so on is a bit spoiling Internet band wide and makes the Café more confusing. Members who try to read it all like me, :big grin: have to search for the previous tread about the same subject from the same member. And than it cost to much energy as we all don't have time to spoil.

Just my opinion of course.

arnaud

Hi Marcus,

I'd like to add a thought or two to this discussion on "intimidation". Most of my life, I've been labeled as just that and for a guy that spent almost 20 years power lifting tipping the scales at 260 ... I can see the logic. It has taken a lot of years to overcome that label and it is something, that in effect, can beat back the confidence gained as a result of getting involved in a self confidence building activity in the first place. I actually had a t-shirt made up once that said: "I'm not intimidating, you're just insecure". Some of you that know me and my goofball humor would probably see that shirt on me and say "yep ... that's you alright".

I'll probably get some heat for this (or be ignored which is par for the course) but intimidation is a cause and effect feeling. Meaning it is someone else who is to blame for the other person who is feeling that way. In actuality, it is our own fault and our own insecurities that are to blame. Artists can be some of the most insecure people around and that's because we are in constant competition with ourselves ... beating ourselves up in an overcritical nature as we look at our own work. That can either drive us to excel or drive us to withdraw.

We need to be 110% confident in ourselves and 110% committed to the work we do. Again, however, confidence can be misinterpreted as arrogance. But like being "intimidating", confidence is not something that should be turned around either.

Sure, my work doesn't come anywhere close to the outstanding work that is being posted here but I will still eventually post my work again. Confidence can overcome insecurity and it can for everybody. It is being confident in the training path we have chosen to achieve successful progress as well as being 110% confident in the commitment we have made in undertaking this road of never ending challenges and achievements.

Some progress faster and others are already way ahead .... that doesn't make anyone "better" because everyone had to begin at the beginning. Only by ditching the insecurity, can one be confident in him/herself and be happy for those who have succeeded. That's the positive energy which brings about positive progress and results .... and for all the right reasons.

I don't see any work posted here that is "intimidating". I see confident engravers who are 110% dedicated and committed to their art. That goes for all levels of skill and achievement. I would not and should not, defer my issue to anyone else.

Chris

Wow!

I just spent I don't know how long reading through this thread, and all I can say is THANK YOU to each an every one who posted before me.

Every day when I visit the forum I can't wait to see what is new for me to learn. My own journey to this point began when a wonderful guy named Jonah Umsted who used to do the engraving for a jewelry store I worked in, took an interest in me and offered to teach me some engraving.

I was only able to work with him if I worked for free, and unfortunately I got laid off and I was getting married and couldn't do that. As a result I never really got a chance to cut anything. That was in 1975. I beat myself up for a lot of years for not taking advantage of that opportunity until I saw an add for GRS and my wife said I should go since it was something always wanted to do. After a week with Rex Pedersen, I told her how excited I was to be doing this. Then she insisted I buy everything I needed while I was there.
( No wonder I married Her 32 years ago)

I haven't posted many pictures, because I can't seem to get good ones, but I stay busy trying to improve. Even she is beginning to notice some improvement.

I have to admit, that I never thought my largest group of friend would be people I've never met personally, but I don't know what else to call someone who has my best interest at heart.

I hope everyone realizes what this forum means to someone like me, and isn't afraid to criticize my work when you see it, although I am insecure enough to want some praise if I deserve it too.

Well... that's more sentiment than I've expressed in the last 56 years. Hope it was't too much.

Thanks again.

Thanks J. for telling this. Indeed also I have some friends here that I never met.
My wife and children are also very interested in my work and progress, but only with peer you can really share a passion like engraving.

And show us some of your work.

arnaud

Hi J,

Recognition and praise for your achievements means the most when it comes from your peers. Sometimes it is the little push we all need now and again to push forward.

I should have mentioned that in my previous post.

Sorting it all out ... the praise, and constructive critique (good and bad) can get confusing. When you have a clear vision of where you want your work to progress, then choosing what is truly constructive from that which is well intended (but counter productive to your goals) becomes easy.


All the best,

Chris

Well said, Marcus!

I run into similar circumstances when a rare instrument disappears into a secure safe in a private collection. The forums are blessed to have generous postings of world class work to be studied and appreciated by us all, and in this way these artists, in combination with the forums, are forwarding the craft in general.

I also agree that there is value in posting our 'baby steps', no matter what level of skill we are at, and just take a look at the huge number of kind hearted and valuable replies coming from 'the masters'. Who knows what modest posting of today will be looked back at from a new 'enfant terrible' some time hence.

best

Rod

Excellent thread.

Kudos to the comments all around this thread.

The entry into the phylosophy and attitudes that make greatness is well displayed by everyone on this forum. I am very proud to be here!

I see a lot of wisdom in you guys. Insecurity is surely a spirit that will hold you down and retard your growth, and having the courage to put yourself on the line shows me that you have similar passions to mine and the others here.

A man willing to sacrifice ego for the sake of excellence is in love with something much greater than himself. That is the meaning of real security and success. It takes courage to be vulnerable.

Forward!

Ron S

Well spoken Ron...

My Dad told me once that anyone with a mouth could be a critic, if given the chance...but...and this is a big but...first you must do something, and that is most important.
If you want to play it safe, stay at home, shut the curtains and don't do anything...other wise...do something, open yourself up to the world and grow !

Your words will stay with me for the day Ron, thank you for that !

Well, this thread has me really thinking and I love it when friends (strangers only in the fact they have never met face to face) offer sound advice to those wanting help to improve. I have been mentoring a high school student with a senior project for a few weeks now, and when I was asked if I considered myself an "expert", I was floored. Of course I don't consider myself an expert, but I had to be very careful how I answered the question. I diplomatically informed her that when I placed myself next to some of the greats I have met, both through this forum and in person, I was not, but I said I was very good and, like most artists, was never satisfied with any previous work, whether it was the line I just engraved or the last work completed. I tried to stress the fact that our ultimate endeavor is to make everything we do better than what we just did, even if it is only a practice plate to keep the hand-eye coordination fresh and sharp. That is what I look for when I post here, honest evaluation and constuctive criticism where not only I, but maybe some others will benefit. Thank you all for your willingness to offer your many years of experience and education to us novices. We are indebted to you more than can be expressed.

John Saville, keep posting, as your work is getting better and better. It was a pleasure to share space next to you with Rex, and thanks for keeping tabs on my swelled hand after stabbing it to the bone!

Chris, I know what you mean about being intimidating. Rex called me the "body guard" when I worked the FEGA table at Reno! Funny, I don't see myself that big, but at 280 I guess I am.

Bill

Marcus, thanks for a great thread. My dad had a saying that he regularly told me from about the time I was 5, and that was "you'll never make any mistakes if you don't do anything". I'll admit I have been intimidated about posting my work so I have been learning from others who aren't. I will try and post but I'm still having problems with decent enough pictures, I need a different camera.
Thanks again Marcus, Sam and everyone who share their knowledge no matter what level you may be at. Kerry

Kerry

Try two things for better pictures:
1) Use a tripod - you'll be amazed at how much better your pictures are if you're not holding the camera.
2) Use a sheet of paper and bounce the light onto your engraving. It'll be smoother and cleaner.

Marcus, I want to thank you for taking the time (usually my own biggest limitation) to post a great thread! Wonderful words of encouragement!!
I agree; do not let your fear keep you from posting a photo. I always enjoy the threads with pics!
I will second the view shared earlier that in years past the sharing of info was very limited and if you did not personally know another engraver, finding much out was tough if not impossible. This forum & the others like it have made such a difference. That being said, the forum wouldn't be much without those who take the time to share what they have learned.
I believe it really comes down to attitude; our own attitude and confidence about who we are & what we do. If we approach this engraving art as a competition of skills then I believe we will miss out on a great deal. Jealousy and pride can keep one from learning and conversely, from sharing. I love the fact that anyone is welcome to share and the environment is such that while constructive criticism is given it is done with a good, well-intended spirit!
If you are shy about sharing well, that's OK too but remember; you are in a group of friends who want to see you excel, grow and be the very best that you can be!
Don't worry about being trying to be exactly like so and so; learn the techniques, develop your artistic skills and then continue to push yourself and test the limits: Don't be afraid to be you!!!

Sorry for rambling on too long,

WL

I was very busy for the last weeks and i didn't have the time to engrave nor have a look at the forum. Today i found this - what a really great thread!

I like to add something personal, maybe it will help other beginners to post.
The reason, the story why i am here:
Long time ago i searched the web for something about stone setting - in German language. I found one or two useful things, but at that time i need more information. So i started searching in English - under the results was a site called "masterengraver" (a few people here know this homepage...? ). While i watched some of these works i thougt i never have seen comparable.

At this point i have to ask you: have you a picture of an engraved thing (on paper or in your head), that makes you going on? I mean a piece of work you are fascinated by? A work you wish you can do some day?

I found mine there - and i forgot what i was searching for. Since that day i have nights i dreamed of scolls. It is wacky, crazy or lunatic - i don't know the right English word for what happens to me. As you can see my English is not very well. I have sometimes effort to understand all the words in some posts and i need to look at translators often, but listen beginners, it is worth to spend hour after hour here. So much help here!

Please pay attention to this: if someone here answers to a question you ask, help you at a piece of work, you don't know how to go on, show him or her the time, that was needed to answer was not lose one's labor - go and post the result!

Mario

Mario,
your story sounds familiar, only I didn't look for information in German.
But I also discovered the "art of engraving" as something I could reach. As 25 years ago when I started making jewellery, I had interest in engraving but could not find the information I needed.
Also I dream of scrolls, and one difference between you and me is that you are a master goldsmith, and I do mostly commercial work.
But now I really want to make some master pieces, using my goldsmith skills and this new skills "engraving", now mater what time it takes. And I supose you already made some master pieces, and perhaps like to make some new.

I also re-found the pleasure using the pencil, all thanks to this Café.
And thanks for telling your story,

arnaud

Steve, thanks for the tips. Kerry