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Baygraver

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Hi all,

One of the advantages of have a studio in a silversmith/restoration shop is that you get to inspect all the items that come through for a while. I want to share this three foot diameter brass tray with you and ask if anyone can provide further information as to its origins.

My mind boggled at the amount of work involved when I first saw it. It’s obviously from the Middle East, and does have some Arabic writing in one area.

Someone told me they thought it might have been done as a devotional piece by boys in a religious school, similar to such quilting events in church groups. The chasing and engraving are very intertwined and of quite good quality.

It’s to be cleaned (too much Brasso residue) and re-patinaed. I’ll post subsequent pictures.

Can anyone provide me more information?

Regards, Jim



Here’s the piece on a “delayedâ€￾ restoration job in the shop yard for scale.




Note the chasing and engraving with a lot of background work.



 

Tim Wells

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That is a brass coffee table and is very common. They aren't engraved, they are pressed on a sheet of brass in a die. My Grandparents bought one when he was stationed in Japan in the 50's.
 

Sam

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Looks like a 1960's model Chevy truck with some sort of decorative brass thingy on the windshield. ;)
 

kcstott

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That chevy is a 68 or 69 but the plate or tray i believe is a communal serving dish. In the middle east arab countries it is common practice to have the main course placed on one large dish and side dishes placed around the area. then you reach in with your right hand only and scoop up the food with the fingers eating it with flat bread and coffee (if in turkey) or tea if you are just about anywhere else.
 

Baygraver

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That chevy is a 68 or 69 but the plate or tray i believe is a communal serving dish. In the middle east arab countries it is common practice to have the main course placed on one large dish and side dishes placed around the area. then you reach in with your right hand only and scoop up the food with the fingers eating it with flat bread and coffee (if in turkey) or tea if you are just about anywhere else.

If you look closely at the Chevy you'll see 1968 chalked on the upper left hood. Must be true. Regards, Jim
 

John B.

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I love the comment that it looks like a 50's or 60's Chevy with a brass thingy!
Good one....we do have fun and now and again a little silly time.

I go along with Tim W. and Ron VanO on the origin of this piece and because of the people depicted.
There appears to be a woman milking a yak so I would guess the Himalayan area
of Indo-China or even Northern Pakistan.
Most of these tray type items were made to serve as a sit-on-the- floor table and were supported on a cedar wood or mahogany base for domestic use.
A lot of them that were made for export had a drum shaped base, some with doors for storage and were mostly carved.
 

Ron Smith

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What kind of yak is it John?...........a plain yak ...........or a yakity yak????????????

.....you guys are too funny!!

Ron S

Sorry about that, I just couldn't pass it up..........
 

Baygraver

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That is a brass coffee table and is very common. They aren't engraved, they are pressed on a sheet of brass in a die. My Grandparents bought one when he was stationed in Japan in the 50's.


Tim,

Well, this message made me go back and take another look. It's chased and engraved. I've seen the type you're referring to (embossed, I think the word is). I'm not sure yet whether the brass tray itself was hammered out or stamped. It seems rather incredible that it could have been hammered. Jim
 

Roger Bleile

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I am with Ron VanOstrand on this one. Islam does not allow depiction of human or animal. This is why Islamic architecture is covered with calligraphy for ornamentation rather than the types of iconography found in much of Christianity. The figures on the tray look typically Indian.

Usually these trays and other decorated brass household objects are primarily worked with punches while the artisan sits on the floor steadying the work with his feet and legs. When gravers are used they are short chisels, which are hammered toward the engraver.

CRB
 

Baygraver

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I am with Ron VanOstrand on this one. Islam does not allow depiction of human or animal. This is why Islamic architecture is covered with calligraphy for ornamentation rather than the types of iconography found in much of Christianity. The figures on the tray look typically Indian.

Usually these trays and other decorated brass household objects are primarily worked with punches while the artisan sits on the floor steadying the work with his feet and legs. When gravers are used they are short chisels, which are hammered toward the engraver.

CRB

Well, this is getting interesting. I think I'll find someone who speaks Arabic and ask him to translate the (what looks to me to be) arabic writing.

I'll also further inspect the incised areas (that means engraved or cut) for evidence of hammer marks. Most of the work is chased (meaning pushing the metal around on the surface) and/or embossed with stamps.

Another possibility is that it's Persian; we have a number of Persian restaurants around here, so I'll take the tray out to dinner (along with my wife, of course) or maybe ask the person who brought it in. Hmmm....

Follow-up will be provided.

Regards, Jim
 

Baygraver

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My guess would be that it's origins are closer to India. Islamic pieces rarely have humans represented and focus mainly on ornamentation by design I believe.

Ron, Thanks for the clues. Maybe it's made somewhere in the Pakistan area. The fact that it's 36 inches in diameter might suggest it's from some local that was influenced by the British at some point. Jim
 

fegarex

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I profess to know NOTHING about the origins or historic significance of this but all I know in the 70s and 80s you could buy this stuff really cheap from import stores. I suppose you still can but I haven't seem as much now. There was all kinds of copper, brass and wood things hand engraved or carved for prices that were real cheap. The work was never fantastic but was usually not bad and full coverage.
 

monk

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yer all rong ! that's the gas cap for the chevy. it was just "photoshopped" !
 

Baygraver

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I profess to know NOTHING about the origins or historic significance of this but all I know in the 70s and 80s you could buy this stuff really cheap from import stores. I suppose you still can but I haven't seem as much now. There was all kinds of copper, brass and wood things hand engraved or carved for prices that were real cheap. The work was never fantastic but was usually not bad and full coverage.

Rex, The hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours of work in this piece makes one try to reclarify one's engraving priorities.

First, good design.

Second, quality engraving.

Third, pleasing effect.

Is that how it goes?

Thanks, Jim
 

fegarex

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Jim,
I just remember tables similar to this but smaller selling for $200-$300 range back then. I did a quick check on Ebay and there were some smaller tables but nothing this elaborate but some still nice 24" diameter for $200 and something.
It looks like this table may have a much nicer edge as well. The ones I remember just had a rolled edge.
You might do a google or even look on Ebay to see if you can find something simlar.
As I said before, I make no claims on being an expert but I do know that labor is SO cheap on this stuff it amazes me what can be bought for the money.
 

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