I am new to this site and am interested in engraving. I don’t want to start the infamous "Tool Fight" but it is a little confusing with all that is offered out there from different companies. Especially not knowing what basics are needed to get started and what tools you can hold off on until you get a little more advanced. If one is a beginner with artistic skills what would the more experienced recommend for equipment (complete set up) for a newbie? Thanks.
Setup up For a Newbie
- Thread starter robe763
- Start date
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Hi robe763
And welcome to the forum.
This question is asked a lot and has been answered at length on other threads. I suggest that you "search" the forum and read everything that you can.
There is no correct answer. It depends on you entirley. Your budget, what you want to engrave, how much you are committed to the process and how much time you wish to spend. It's fair to say your budget will be a big determining factor.
There is everything from push gravers, hammer & chisel to air tools. Then there is the vise, sharpening gear and a few other bits and peices. You can start quite cheaply or spend a small fortune. You will also need to invest in a few decent books.
Everything from a butchers mess to great works of art are created with all the tools and equipment that is available to engravers.
It would be useful if you told us about yourself, what it is you want to engrave and what your budget is.
Cheers
Andrew
And welcome to the forum.
This question is asked a lot and has been answered at length on other threads. I suggest that you "search" the forum and read everything that you can.
There is no correct answer. It depends on you entirley. Your budget, what you want to engrave, how much you are committed to the process and how much time you wish to spend. It's fair to say your budget will be a big determining factor.
There is everything from push gravers, hammer & chisel to air tools. Then there is the vise, sharpening gear and a few other bits and peices. You can start quite cheaply or spend a small fortune. You will also need to invest in a few decent books.
Everything from a butchers mess to great works of art are created with all the tools and equipment that is available to engravers.
It would be useful if you told us about yourself, what it is you want to engrave and what your budget is.
Cheers
Andrew
Thanks Andrew
I would like to engrave on firearms. In my spare time I like working on old .22's. I bought a electric checkering set up along with some hand tools a couple of years ago and as I started doing that I thought about trying my hand at engraving as well. I enjoy drawing wildlife and figured that with that ability engraving may be something to try.
As far as budget I don't no that I have one set. I have learned from some of the tools that I have bought that you get what you pay for. As a beginner I don't think that I need to get the top of the line stuff but I dont know that I want to buy the bottom of the barrel equipment either. I had been looking at some of the air tools but with no real knowledge of the equipment I am not sure which way to go
I would like to engrave on firearms. In my spare time I like working on old .22's. I bought a electric checkering set up along with some hand tools a couple of years ago and as I started doing that I thought about trying my hand at engraving as well. I enjoy drawing wildlife and figured that with that ability engraving may be something to try.
As far as budget I don't no that I have one set. I have learned from some of the tools that I have bought that you get what you pay for. As a beginner I don't think that I need to get the top of the line stuff but I dont know that I want to buy the bottom of the barrel equipment either. I had been looking at some of the air tools but with no real knowledge of the equipment I am not sure which way to go
Robe,
You might take a look at the Buy and Sell listing on this forum.
There is decent equipment offered at good prices every day if you want to go the used route.
Also get the tool catalogs from the various tool companies mentioned in the posts.
Your first step is to decide what method you want to start with as Andrew said.
Try to go to some of the larger gun, knife and/or jewelery shows in your area and also see some engravers at work.
James Meeks book "The Art of Engraving" would be helpful in collecting your thoughts.
Best of luck on your engraving adventure.
John B.
You might take a look at the Buy and Sell listing on this forum.
There is decent equipment offered at good prices every day if you want to go the used route.
Also get the tool catalogs from the various tool companies mentioned in the posts.
Your first step is to decide what method you want to start with as Andrew said.
Try to go to some of the larger gun, knife and/or jewelery shows in your area and also see some engravers at work.
James Meeks book "The Art of Engraving" would be helpful in collecting your thoughts.
Best of luck on your engraving adventure.
John B.
From reading some older post it seems that the pneumatic tool gives you a somewhat shorter learning curve as well as maybe a little more forgiving than the push graver or hammer & chisel method. So I would say that the pnuematic is what I am leaning towards. But looking at some of the different companies websites there seems to be quite a few different hand pieces and other attachments that I am really not sure if I need them starting out. If noise is not an issue can you use any type of compressor as long as the pressure is regulated? which handpiece "XYZ", which gravers to start with, ect.. I guess what I was looking for was a list of what I would need to start out.
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Hi Robe
It's been my experience that it's incredibly hard to get dud tools for engraving. All of the suppliers provide good quality equipment.
First you have the hand tools like a hand push burin and hammer and chisel. This is the low budget end of the market. This is where your muscles and arms (or a hand held hammer) provide the force needed to move the graver through the metal. These methods have been around for a few thousand years …………don't mistake budget for being low quality. They have, and still do, produce great works of engraving art and are still used a lot today.
The air tools at the end of the day they are small hammers that fit into your hand with a hole in the end to hold a graver. They are all basically the same and that is that they have air coming into them at one end and provide a reciprocating action for the graver at the other end that makes cutting through the metal less tiresome on your muscles. (the technical side may vary from brand to brand but that is the final result that they all deliver).
Sharpening can be hand done by hand with stones or with the use of holding devices. The holding devices make life a lot easier but hand sharpening is still a common practice today.
Magnification can be a hand held loupe or an optivisor that fits on your head. Or a microscope. All are used today.
Gravers that are used to cut the metal come in a great variety of shapes. The square graver is probably the most versatile as it can be shaped to virtually anything. they are made of various hardness' and you will need a variety of them.
Holding devices can be store brought vises to home made ones and everything in between. Buy a good one from the start!!! For most gun work bigger and heavier is better.
On top of all that you will need scribers, burnishers and be able to make your own punches etc which is all simple enough. Books are essential and there are about 3 that should be in every beginner’s library. (John B has given you very good advice with the book he mentions)
You will also need is pencil and paper……………and lots of it.
The most important tools you are your brain and hands...............without those, none of the above will be of any use to you. Read a lot and study only the best engraving and learn the basics as everything grows from there. All of the tools you will purchase over a period of time are a matter of personal preference and what you like using.
At the end of the day there is no magic or short cuts..........just a lifetimes learning and hard, dedicated work.
Cheers
Andrew
It's been my experience that it's incredibly hard to get dud tools for engraving. All of the suppliers provide good quality equipment.
First you have the hand tools like a hand push burin and hammer and chisel. This is the low budget end of the market. This is where your muscles and arms (or a hand held hammer) provide the force needed to move the graver through the metal. These methods have been around for a few thousand years …………don't mistake budget for being low quality. They have, and still do, produce great works of engraving art and are still used a lot today.
The air tools at the end of the day they are small hammers that fit into your hand with a hole in the end to hold a graver. They are all basically the same and that is that they have air coming into them at one end and provide a reciprocating action for the graver at the other end that makes cutting through the metal less tiresome on your muscles. (the technical side may vary from brand to brand but that is the final result that they all deliver).
Sharpening can be hand done by hand with stones or with the use of holding devices. The holding devices make life a lot easier but hand sharpening is still a common practice today.
Magnification can be a hand held loupe or an optivisor that fits on your head. Or a microscope. All are used today.
Gravers that are used to cut the metal come in a great variety of shapes. The square graver is probably the most versatile as it can be shaped to virtually anything. they are made of various hardness' and you will need a variety of them.
Holding devices can be store brought vises to home made ones and everything in between. Buy a good one from the start!!! For most gun work bigger and heavier is better.
On top of all that you will need scribers, burnishers and be able to make your own punches etc which is all simple enough. Books are essential and there are about 3 that should be in every beginner’s library. (John B has given you very good advice with the book he mentions)
You will also need is pencil and paper……………and lots of it.
The most important tools you are your brain and hands...............without those, none of the above will be of any use to you. Read a lot and study only the best engraving and learn the basics as everything grows from there. All of the tools you will purchase over a period of time are a matter of personal preference and what you like using.
At the end of the day there is no magic or short cuts..........just a lifetimes learning and hard, dedicated work.
Cheers
Andrew
Andrew Biggs
Moderator
Hi Robe
Yes, they are excellent tools.
BUT............The pnuematic tools are a double edged sword and may shorten the learning curve slightly...........they will have you cutting metal a little faster but that is all.
BUT............Only if you spend and dedicate a lot of time to practicing every day.
The pneumatic tools won't shorten the learning curve with knowledge and understanding of what it is you are doing. And they won't help you with your design work which is another area altogether. They are only one small step in a whole chain of knowledge and experience and technical expertise that you will have to aquire over a period of time.
As a newbie wanting to get into engraving it is important that you understand these concepts.
Cheers
Andrew
Yes, they are excellent tools.
BUT............The pnuematic tools are a double edged sword and may shorten the learning curve slightly...........they will have you cutting metal a little faster but that is all.
BUT............Only if you spend and dedicate a lot of time to practicing every day.
The pneumatic tools won't shorten the learning curve with knowledge and understanding of what it is you are doing. And they won't help you with your design work which is another area altogether. They are only one small step in a whole chain of knowledge and experience and technical expertise that you will have to aquire over a period of time.
As a newbie wanting to get into engraving it is important that you understand these concepts.
Cheers
Andrew
thefox
Member
tools
Hi Robe
I don't have a great amount of advise to offer, as I am a beginner also, but having bought and used various machinery all my life, I will say this.......It's not very often that buying top quality equipment is the wrong way to go. I bought all I could stand, knowing that it would be easy to sell if everything didn't go as planned. I would rather plow a field with a John Deere tractor, than an old mule, if you know what I mean.
No longer than I've been in engraving, and knowing what I know now, a dual angle sharpner would be a must have for starting off right. If you can consistently sharpen you tools, you are ahead of the game. I have no idea how much you want to spend, but as a rule the good stuff pays off on all counts, and you can move it if decide to do something else. Thats my two cents worth.
Oh by the way, You are in a group that are the most generous in trying to help in every way. An outstanding bunch.
Cheers, Bryan Clary
Hi Robe
I don't have a great amount of advise to offer, as I am a beginner also, but having bought and used various machinery all my life, I will say this.......It's not very often that buying top quality equipment is the wrong way to go. I bought all I could stand, knowing that it would be easy to sell if everything didn't go as planned. I would rather plow a field with a John Deere tractor, than an old mule, if you know what I mean.
No longer than I've been in engraving, and knowing what I know now, a dual angle sharpner would be a must have for starting off right. If you can consistently sharpen you tools, you are ahead of the game. I have no idea how much you want to spend, but as a rule the good stuff pays off on all counts, and you can move it if decide to do something else. Thats my two cents worth.
Oh by the way, You are in a group that are the most generous in trying to help in every way. An outstanding bunch.
Cheers, Bryan Clary
diandwill
Elite Cafe Member
While all the posts are filled with great info, the thing that turned me from a 15 year wanna be to an actual engraver was taking a GRS course. In one week, I understood what Meeks was trying to say, and left with the knowledge and understanding of what was needed to produce saleable quality engraving. The best money I ever spent.
Will
Will
bronc
Elite Cafe Member
Robe,
I agree with Will. The best money I ever spent was taking a begining engraving class. Mine was with Johny Weyerts of Alpine TX.
Stewart
I agree with Will. The best money I ever spent was taking a begining engraving class. Mine was with Johny Weyerts of Alpine TX.
Stewart
carl bleile
Elite Cafe Member
Andrew has prety much layed it all out. If you want to get a feel for engraving maybe you should take it slow at first, first pencil and paper so you will have an idea of what scroll work looks like which makes it easier to cut. It's very important to know how to sharpen tools they will get dull and broken quickly when you first start cutting. A good way to start cutting is with hammer and chisel it takes a little while to learn the basics but it will teach you a lot in the process. the push tool is a lot harder to master mainly because a lot of unused muscles have to be developed and trained. If all goes well you will have a clearer understanding of the tools and processes and the posts you read will make more sence instead of trying to make mental pictures of something your not acquainted with.
Hope this helped a little
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
Hope this helped a little
Carl Bleile
southwest, Ohio
the very first tool i advise to purchase, is a diamond-based "sharpening "system". it will deliver consistent tool points right from the start, regardless what sort of tools you decide to go with- push, h&c, or power assist. correct tool points are the order of the day, esp for a beginner. this eliminates many frustrating variables from the start !
thanks for the comments. I can appreciate the comment concerning the pneumatic tools vs the hand tools I ran into that same double edge sword when starting to learn to checker with the electric checkering tool as compared to the hand tools. As mentioned I have a background in art and I have a good understanding of design, depth, shading, symmetry ect... and feel that this would possibly give me a leg up on starting, maybe not. I understand too that practice and consistency as with most anything will be the key to progressing. I was hoping that there would have been more responses relating to equipment or tools that gave an indication of those that were more user friendly for beginners. I realize that there is probably more than one that fits this category. But I feel somewhat certain that they may be some that are not for the beginner whether its and older model or newer, if that makes sense.
Robert Morales
Elite Cafe Member
Welcome robe763, One thing you might consider is trying to find an engraver or two close to you and get some "hands on". See and feel what they are using. There may be jewelers in your area that engrave using hand and/or power tools.
Roger Bleile
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Robe,
You mentioned that you want to be a gun engraver. All of the above advice regarding engraving is accurate however you need to be able to deal with the gun aspect of it. To be a gun engraver you need to know and have the tools to completely dissassemble any gun including removing the barrel and all small parts. You will also need to be able to strip the finish, repolish the metal and then refinish the gun or know who to send it to for refinishing so that your work is not butchered. You will also learn that the various parts of any gun have varying degrees of hardness that you must adapt to. You will also find that, due to the metallurgy or heat treatment, some gun parts are almost impossible to engrave.
The other aspect you need to consider is that practicing engraving on flat steel plates only gets you so far. When you start on a gun you will find that engraving on convex and concave surfaces is a new ball game and requires additional skill.
Beyond that, if you intend to engrave a gun belonging to another person and will have it in your possession for over 24 hours you will need to have a federal gun dealer's license. You don't need a license if you only work on your own guns or non-gun items like knives or jewelry.
Becoming a gun engraver is a long and arduous path and someone hacking at it before they were artistically or mechanically ready has butchered many a gun. None of this is intended to discourage you from learning and applying the trade. If you really have a passion to be an engraver (and not just an inclination) nothing can stop you and all of us here will be there to assist you along the way.
Good luck
CRB
You mentioned that you want to be a gun engraver. All of the above advice regarding engraving is accurate however you need to be able to deal with the gun aspect of it. To be a gun engraver you need to know and have the tools to completely dissassemble any gun including removing the barrel and all small parts. You will also need to be able to strip the finish, repolish the metal and then refinish the gun or know who to send it to for refinishing so that your work is not butchered. You will also learn that the various parts of any gun have varying degrees of hardness that you must adapt to. You will also find that, due to the metallurgy or heat treatment, some gun parts are almost impossible to engrave.
The other aspect you need to consider is that practicing engraving on flat steel plates only gets you so far. When you start on a gun you will find that engraving on convex and concave surfaces is a new ball game and requires additional skill.
Beyond that, if you intend to engrave a gun belonging to another person and will have it in your possession for over 24 hours you will need to have a federal gun dealer's license. You don't need a license if you only work on your own guns or non-gun items like knives or jewelry.
Becoming a gun engraver is a long and arduous path and someone hacking at it before they were artistically or mechanically ready has butchered many a gun. None of this is intended to discourage you from learning and applying the trade. If you really have a passion to be an engraver (and not just an inclination) nothing can stop you and all of us here will be there to assist you along the way.
Good luck
CRB
Last edited:
As mentioned in the earlier post I work on old .22's as well as other firearms. I have most of the tools I need for dissassembly as well as reference books relating to gunsmithing and dissassembly of firearms. Anything that would have to be "hot" reblued would be sent off. I am not necessarily looking to make this an occupation rather an addittion to my hobbies. As stated I have an artistic back ground that I would hope would apply. Not sure how to attach pictures. I will send them to you by email.
Thanks
Thanks
filbertius
Elite Cafe Member
numerous much more talented people than me can tell you more, but it is pretty easy to put pics on this site. i like to size them to about 800-1000 pixels wide or so and save them as .jpeg (besides fitting on the screen nicely, this will make them small enough to attach well).
gary
gary
Don't buy anything until you know a little more about the nature of engraving.
One thing is a no brainer the dual sharpening jig, but there is a proviso: how do you recognize a sharp engraver. Having a sharp graver is critical; you can't do anything without it. And recognizing a sharp graver takes close examination
I took a GRS class with Sam Alfano. It must be 5 years ago. It took that long for things to sink in, but I'm slower than most. Unless you're from another planet, take a class you'll learn a lot about what's necessary. You'll also meet some nice people.
Kevin P.
One thing is a no brainer the dual sharpening jig, but there is a proviso: how do you recognize a sharp engraver. Having a sharp graver is critical; you can't do anything without it. And recognizing a sharp graver takes close examination
I took a GRS class with Sam Alfano. It must be 5 years ago. It took that long for things to sink in, but I'm slower than most. Unless you're from another planet, take a class you'll learn a lot about what's necessary. You'll also meet some nice people.
Kevin P.
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