Epson Transparencies - end of an era?
- Thread starter Brian Marshall
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Tim Wells
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I did a comparison of films late last night. The eagle on the left is burnished off of the Epson film, the one on the right is on the brand X film. The first time I tried it the medium was Tom's solution but the right one turned out way too light so I may have had it spread thinner in that section so a comparison of solutions isn't fair.
The second set is Tom's sauce on the left and my own concoction on the right; Epson film on the left & brand X on the right again.
The Epson is still the best so far as it transfers with less pressure because it doesn't have any perceptible "tooth" on the back side and the results are smoother and a bit darker, whereas the brand X get's almost as dark a transfer but not quite as much detail but I think it's enough to work from.
I'll try a banknote picture in a minute and post it.
The second set is Tom's sauce on the left and my own concoction on the right; Epson film on the left & brand X on the right again.
The Epson is still the best so far as it transfers with less pressure because it doesn't have any perceptible "tooth" on the back side and the results are smoother and a bit darker, whereas the brand X get's almost as dark a transfer but not quite as much detail but I think it's enough to work from.
I'll try a banknote picture in a minute and post it.
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Tim Wells
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Well, I have been printing these out wrong by just using the printer software and selecting instead of full page; I clicked contact sheet and it trashed the quality of the photo. I got straightened out by this Yankee feller and he wised me up so I re-did this by scaling it down in Corel Draw and it kept the image quality. DUH.
Tom's super sauce was used again, Epson film on top, brand X on bottom. No printers were harmed in the making of this experiment.
Tom's super sauce was used again, Epson film on top, brand X on bottom. No printers were harmed in the making of this experiment.
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I finally got a transfer. It looks like I got it all.
Important point: Mark's 'sticky test'; there are lots of opportunities to lose track of what's up.
Tira's points of shake before using and the paint brush application of the transfer fluid. In all my efforts I used a 'scotchbite pad to clean the metal and then a couple of wipes with acetone and a clean paper towel before applying solution.
I taped everything down very carefully and firmly on a piece of acrylic scrap; it's easy for things to shift. I very firmly burnished with a metal burnisher (I don't know if the tool is peculiar to metal working) it has a oval cross section. I keep it polished with Simichrome and stored in a piece of chamois. I think this burnisher is very helpful; it's very stiff and the oval cross section avoids tears.
I wanted to get all these details down while things were fresh in my mind. Maybe it'll be helpful to other beginners. I'm still going to try Rod's method; it's good to have backup.
Thanks to all for helping me through this. I hope it will be repeatable.
Now I have to face cutting it. No more excuses.
Kevin P.
Important point: Mark's 'sticky test'; there are lots of opportunities to lose track of what's up.
Tira's points of shake before using and the paint brush application of the transfer fluid. In all my efforts I used a 'scotchbite pad to clean the metal and then a couple of wipes with acetone and a clean paper towel before applying solution.
I taped everything down very carefully and firmly on a piece of acrylic scrap; it's easy for things to shift. I very firmly burnished with a metal burnisher (I don't know if the tool is peculiar to metal working) it has a oval cross section. I keep it polished with Simichrome and stored in a piece of chamois. I think this burnisher is very helpful; it's very stiff and the oval cross section avoids tears.
I wanted to get all these details down while things were fresh in my mind. Maybe it'll be helpful to other beginners. I'm still going to try Rod's method; it's good to have backup.
Thanks to all for helping me through this. I hope it will be repeatable.
Now I have to face cutting it. No more excuses.
Kevin P.
Impressive results, Tim. Thanks for doing this comparison and posting your results. This makes me want to buy another inkjet printer, but I just don't do enough transferring to justify it right now. But the results are fantastic....such clarity and resolution!
Tim Wells
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Glad to be of service to the masses.
fegarex
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Tim,
Thanks for taking the time to do the tests and updates.
Now.. The $64K question... Is this Brand X available at office supply stores? Is it marketed under another name brand or under their own? Just wondered what they said.
Thanks again,
Rex
Thanks for taking the time to do the tests and updates.
Now.. The $64K question... Is this Brand X available at office supply stores? Is it marketed under another name brand or under their own? Just wondered what they said.
Thanks again,
Rex
Good question Rex. I tried calling my local Staples, and the brand of transparencies they have in stock is Apollo(sp?).
Has anyone tried those?
Also, I have been in contact with Melanie at Voltexx. They currently took the Epson product code off of their website, but they have a supplier in the UK. She has ordered some and it is not yet confirmed, if and when they will be available, but time will tell. The price is up to $55 and change for a pack.
Peter
Tim Wells
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Rex,
The guy is sending me a box of 50. What my plan is, is to send some samples to several of our members from the forums so we have a good cross section of results from different printers and ink formulations on the same transparency film. This should give us a good overall synopsis as to whether this stuff is worth fooling with or not.
My original goal was to invest some time in finding a suitable substitute for that Epson film, in so doing I came across this company that from what he said they don't sell it to distributors so ultimately it will be obtained from that company. The reason I haven't said much about who it is or the phone number is simply because while this "experiment" is going on, he won't be clobbered with phone calls from a large portion of the membership of the various engraving forums.
It is priced cheaper than the Epson already and it has 20 more sheets to the box to boot. In my estimation with my particular printer/ink nothing works as good as the Epson film as far as near perfect release of ink, but this stuff is closer than anything else I've tried. I'll be contacting several of you when I get the film and dole some of it out for you to conduct a little science project and hopefully you can post the results for the benefit of us all.
As a side note. I called both the companies that Epson told me made films for them as their "suppliers". Both companies said they do not make them for Epson and one never did, the other doesn't make films at all and haven't for a couple of years... so this marks a dead end for getting the same Epson S041064 films.
fegarex
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Thanks Tim,
Keep us posted.
Rex
Keep us posted.
Rex
Thanks for your time and effort on these transfers, Tim.
Looks to me that last transfers of the line style engraving came out best with the Brand X transparencys and your own sauce. At least, on my screen.
At some point in time are you going to tell us how you make your sauce?
Looks like it's a winning combination.
Best, John B.
Looks to me that last transfers of the line style engraving came out best with the Brand X transparencys and your own sauce. At least, on my screen.
At some point in time are you going to tell us how you make your sauce?
Looks like it's a winning combination.
Best, John B.
Tim Wells
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
John,
Tain't no secret, I just assumed everybody had tried different witches brews when we first started using ink jets for transfers even before Tom's stuff came out.
I slapped together some Bullseye shellac and cut it with denatured alcohol because that is what I had on the bench to clean my work with. I suppose isopropyl rubbing alcohol would work too; so will Damar varnish rather than shellac. It's all sticky and we're cutting it with something that will delute it the right amount and make it evaporate quickly at the same time right?
I do know that the denatured melted these cheap thin plastic water cooler cups I mixed it in.
Yikes! I mixed it about 10-20% shellac to try a thicker base than Tom's stuff to play with the process a little. The results may have been more of a function of how I burnished it.
Also the photo's of the eagles were not reduced properly so they will have more detail when I do them again. I thought about going in and replacing the photos but I don't have time today to go through the motions as I'm fixin' to fly to Ft. Worth for a week come Monday.
Gotta pack.
Tain't no secret, I just assumed everybody had tried different witches brews when we first started using ink jets for transfers even before Tom's stuff came out.
I slapped together some Bullseye shellac and cut it with denatured alcohol because that is what I had on the bench to clean my work with. I suppose isopropyl rubbing alcohol would work too; so will Damar varnish rather than shellac. It's all sticky and we're cutting it with something that will delute it the right amount and make it evaporate quickly at the same time right?
I do know that the denatured melted these cheap thin plastic water cooler cups I mixed it in.
Yikes! I mixed it about 10-20% shellac to try a thicker base than Tom's stuff to play with the process a little. The results may have been more of a function of how I burnished it. Also the photo's of the eagles were not reduced properly so they will have more detail when I do them again. I thought about going in and replacing the photos but I don't have time today to go through the motions as I'm fixin' to fly to Ft. Worth for a week come Monday.
Gotta pack.
Thanks for that, Tim.
I thought that maybe you had come up with another secret sauce.
Have a good and safe flight, don't let anything fall off over our friend Ron's house.
Best, John B.
I thought that maybe you had come up with another secret sauce.
Have a good and safe flight, don't let anything fall off over our friend Ron's house.
Best, John B.
Tim Wells
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I'll be training just down the street from him, maybe they'll let me taxi the F-16 over to his driveway; ya think?
Brian Marshall
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
Yup, it's the end...
Well, at the end of all this - I guess I’m kinda glad and kinda sad.
It’s been proven now, that there will be no more of the miraculous Epson transparencies. I wasn't "mistaken"... (As was left unsaid several times)
Sad that it happened. Glad that I put some stock away ahead of time, and a few of you were still able to find some.
Glad that Tim was able to solve the problem and find a replacement in less than 72 hours – without getting himself into "a time consuming and expensive endeavor."
I just can’t resist this "banknote transfer" thing…
What kinda transparencies do ya s’pose engravers used for banknote transfers back in the 1800’s? Eel skin, fish skin, or frog skin? What brand of printing press & ink?
Has anyone asked the engravers over at the US mint what their favorite brand of transparency is these days? I mean - a real banknote engraver oughta know - right?
On top of everything else that came out of this, we got another half dozen "new" transfer methods outta the deal.
Look around. Do your research. We're up to around 40 ways to skin a cat... or eel, or fish, or frog?
Almost all of 'em work, most of the time. Some better than others. (And we still have a few that require that they be done with the aid of black candles and incense on the night of a full moon! And another that requires hazmat protection...)
Brian Marshall
Stockton Jewelry Arts School
Stockton, CA USA 95209
209-477-0550 instructor@jewelryartschool.com
Well, at the end of all this - I guess I’m kinda glad and kinda sad.
It’s been proven now, that there will be no more of the miraculous Epson transparencies. I wasn't "mistaken"... (As was left unsaid several times)
Sad that it happened. Glad that I put some stock away ahead of time, and a few of you were still able to find some.
Glad that Tim was able to solve the problem and find a replacement in less than 72 hours – without getting himself into "a time consuming and expensive endeavor."
I just can’t resist this "banknote transfer" thing…
What kinda transparencies do ya s’pose engravers used for banknote transfers back in the 1800’s? Eel skin, fish skin, or frog skin? What brand of printing press & ink?
Has anyone asked the engravers over at the US mint what their favorite brand of transparency is these days? I mean - a real banknote engraver oughta know - right?
On top of everything else that came out of this, we got another half dozen "new" transfer methods outta the deal.
Look around. Do your research. We're up to around 40 ways to skin a cat... or eel, or fish, or frog?
Almost all of 'em work, most of the time. Some better than others. (And we still have a few that require that they be done with the aid of black candles and incense on the night of a full moon! And another that requires hazmat protection...)
Brian Marshall
Stockton Jewelry Arts School
Stockton, CA USA 95209
209-477-0550 instructor@jewelryartschool.com
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Wow...I haven't been on the forum in a long time. I'm sorry to hear about this. I sure hope the brand x film is readily available. I was afraid this might happen some day so I took the high road and bought $700 worth of the Epson film about a year and a half ago. It sounds like a lot but I go through a heck of a lot on my flute work. It is the fastest and most accurate method I have ever used. If I had to use another method such as the parchment method I would do it but I'm sure it would take a lot more time and "time is money".
Thanks for all the time you guys put in tracking this down.
Thanks for all the time you guys put in tracking this down.
Steece
Member
Voltexx has the Epson Transparencies in stock right now. I just ordered some about 10 minutes ago. Their phone number is 1-800-211-5554.
Tira
~ Elite 1000 Member ~
I just called Voltexx (1-800-211-5554) and after I ordered they have 2 left. The woman who helped me is named Melanie at extension #205 if you want someone who is familiar with why we need the film. She said that they can order more of the transparencies from Europe where it is not discontinued and is available. They will order more as people call and place orders. The price is $55/pack which is steep, but it is due to the extra costs of importing it from Europe.
revised junk
Member
Thank you for the info, Tira---AND all of those who have contributed.
I just spoke with Melanie and she stated that it takes 2 - 3 weeks to receive the shipment from Europe, and they have been on order for one week. All I said was the word "transparencies", she laughed and proceeded to tell me all I needed to know, without asking. Nice lady.
Gary
I just spoke with Melanie and she stated that it takes 2 - 3 weeks to receive the shipment from Europe, and they have been on order for one week. All I said was the word "transparencies", she laughed and proceeded to tell me all I needed to know, without asking. Nice lady.
Gary
What the heck. One more formula, couldn't hurt.
I was interested in formula that Pena had put forth with the Pixma markers. I thought I'd
give it a try. I had no Pixma marker but I did have Sharpie permanent Yellow. I also had
a box of OfficeMax Transparency's that had proven not to work in the tradition method.
I tried using the Sharpie as Pena had with the Pixma markers, No good again. The
OfficeMax stock had to much tooth and held the print like iron.
I had a brain storm why not try on the other side. What the heck, eh. So I printed off
a design and then used the Sharpie over the spot to be printed. It gave the untreated
side enough tooth to print but it also instantly let go of the print to the metal.
Translation, it works. It works a little to well, actually.
You don't need to burnish as hard as you would on an Epson sheet. Just lightly because
this ink is still quite fluid. If anyones done any real printing with rubber type, you know
about the tendency to skate or smear the image. So just be careful, and use a feather
touch on the burnisher.
Talk to ya later,
Jim
I was interested in formula that Pena had put forth with the Pixma markers. I thought I'd
give it a try. I had no Pixma marker but I did have Sharpie permanent Yellow. I also had
a box of OfficeMax Transparency's that had proven not to work in the tradition method.
I tried using the Sharpie as Pena had with the Pixma markers, No good again. The
OfficeMax stock had to much tooth and held the print like iron.
I had a brain storm why not try on the other side. What the heck, eh. So I printed off
a design and then used the Sharpie over the spot to be printed. It gave the untreated
side enough tooth to print but it also instantly let go of the print to the metal.
Translation, it works. It works a little to well, actually.
You don't need to burnish as hard as you would on an Epson sheet. Just lightly because
this ink is still quite fluid. If anyones done any real printing with rubber type, you know
about the tendency to skate or smear the image. So just be careful, and use a feather
touch on the burnisher.
Talk to ya later,
Jim
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