New Engraver

I am a knifemaker who would like to try his hand at engraving. I have picked up a microscope and a engraving ball thanks to some good people on this forum. I do not have a air powered engraver yet, but I am looking at getting a power hone and some gravers to start learning how to sharpen my tools. I am looking at the GRS Power Hone. and may have to buy it separate from the sharpening fixtures. My question is which attachment to I really need to go with the power hone?

Standard ?
Dual Angle ?
Quick Change ?

I may be in the market real soon for a air powered engraving set up if some one has a good deal on one

Definitely get a dual angle. The quick change is made more for the GRS system of collets but the dual angle can hold any graver shank. It depends on what air assist tool you end up buying. If you end up with an Airgraver the dual angle is one choice or that little template sharpening system sold through Lindsay Engraving. I'd get both regardless for all the possibilities and dead on accuracy.

The power hone is a fine thing to have and is almost a must have. GRS of course sells one and there is a variable speed version from Tom White that you can research on the forums. As for the air assisted tools, keep your eyes peeled on the classifieds, they do come up from time to time, you can save some money that way. Happy sharpening.

Hi Bobby, you'll LOVE all that equipment you get from GRS-nothing you buy will sit idle! I bought the dual angled sharpening holder/fixture first. It's totally necessary for sharpening a 120 degree graver used mostly for gun and knife style engraving (refer to Sam's tutorials on the home page). I also bought Sam's sharpening video DVD from either GRS or Rio Grande-it's well worth the investment ($40.00 or so) as you'll do things properly and can go step by step with the DVD and pause it as you proceed-aint't technology grand when it works?
The single angle sharpening fixture is for sharpening flats for bright cutting etc. and the dual angle will let you down there unfortunately-as you cannot place the graver horizontally in place with the triangular jaws of the dual angle fixture. GRS does sell an insert for that however I picked up at my bright cutting course with Dianne Scalese this spring I got to work well for me-ask for Erin McMichael at GRS for that-he'll know what you'll mean to convert a dual angle for sharpening flats. It works OK to bridge the gap until you get both sharpening fixtures but you ideally need both.
The single angle pivots for the tool angle in only 45 degree increments, so you can't get a 30 degree angle to the heel like you need for the 120 graver. The dual angle (sans adapter for flats) won't hold the flats as they need to be held so it's a catch 22 in a way-frustrating I know, trust me! If money is an issue and (when isn't it?) I'd go with the dual angle with the insert (only 20 bucks or so) and get started. With the adapter you set your graver in place in the quick changers screw holes to the top and left as the flat part of the graver top is at a Birdseye view (and yes you'll have to eyeball it best as you can) and 45 degrees is now the new 0 on the dual angle fixture.
I've since bought the single angle as I mostly bright cut and use flats so have both and can sharpen anything as it should be done.
a 600, 1200, and ceramic lap stone is essential for your sharpening-the ceramic lap will give you your mirror finish to the graver and you need it also to lightly get the heel on a 120 without being too aggressive and removing too much-I learned (rather suffered) the hard way with only a 600 and 1200 in the beginning, what I didn't know then......Sam's instructional DVD on graver sharpening, again, is worth it's weight in gold; a "must have" unendorsed recommendation if you ask me
A quick side note, you need only one post (upright steel rod thingy), it works to hold both fixtures in place so no need to have two really.
Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress, if I need to make anything more clear just drop me a line-HAPPY ENGRAVING Buddy!
Paul

Hey Bobby,
I am sure you can get lots of opinions on this. I think Tim gave you some good advice when he said to match your sharpening system to your graver system. If you end of with something from GRS that uses the QC collets, then only sharper I would recomened is the QC fixture. If you end up with older GRS handpieces or a Lindsay or Ngraver, than the dual angle will serve you well. Actually, as much as I have loved the GRS power hone the last 20 years, If I was getting anything that did not use GRS QC collets, then the easiest and quickest sharpening system for a beginner to learn is the Lindsay with plexi-angles to guide you.

I can't believe I forgot to mention Sam's sharpening video in that post above; shoulda been the first words outta my fingertips. Sorry Sam, you can flog me next time you see me. That video helped me a lot and I still refer to it occasionally due to a short memory.

Is there a difference between the TW designed power hone and the GRS power hone?
I like variable speed stuff. Is there an advantage to either one?
If I wanted to use the Lindsay templates with the TW designed variable speed power hone, will Sam's sharpening DVD help?
BB

The GRS PowerHone is single speed, Tom's is variable and the high end is much faster.

Tom made his discs come out to the right height (1/2") for the Lindsay Template system, with the GRS PowerHone you need to raise the 'plate' the template slides on up a bit - but a couple of pieces of 1x2 laid flat work fine.

There's a definite advantage to Tom's grinder in initial shaping but after that I'm not sure (I've never had a chance to try one of Tom's units).

Sam's DVD will help no matter how you're sharpening.

Bobby Where are you located?

Tim Herman said:

Bobby Where are you located?

Click to expand...

South Carolina

The gravers that are in Sam's video would be made using a dual angle fixture. The advantage of using a TW hone is that it takes the graver down much faster with the proper grit diamond wheel. HOWEVER, when you grind a graver fast, it heats up and it will ruin the temper of the metal and thus ruin the blank if it gets too hot. If it changes colors, it's ruined and you'll have to cut/grind that colored part off and start again.

The GRS hone is a "slow" hone intentionally to keep overheating from happening. I think the new GRS hones have a reverse feature but my old one doesn't. Both hones serve me well.

High speed steel and M42 cobalt blanks are the material most use generally speaking, and when they get warm you can quench them as you go along in water to prevent them from overheating. Carbalt and carbide blanks can be ground fast and hot and it won't ruin the temper but do not quench them; let em' air cool.

When I hog off the surplus metal on a HSS blank, I put my finger tip on the end holding it to the diamond wheel and when it gets too hot for me to hold that finger on there, it's time to dip it in water and I don't burn blanks that way using my "finger guage".

Tim

My practical experience with high speed steel has been in the areas of making tools for injection molding and wood working. While I realize there are many grades of HSS, is the HSS used for gravers a low temperature annealing grade that I'm not aware of? The HHSs I have worked with have to be taken to red heat 1500 degrees f (816 C) before any change in their temper or hardness occurs.

Color change on carbon steel is used to judge the degree of annealing and occurs starting with a light straw color at 445 degrees F (229 C) through dark blue at 575 degrees F (302 C). High carbon steel that is heated to the dark blue stage when sharpening becomes relatively soft and needs to be re hardened and annealed but my experience with HSS is that the temper is unaffected at that temperature.

Are we getting high carbon steel and HSS mixed up here?

I am new to engraving but I am a metallurgical engineer by training so I am curious.

Mike

Bobby, sorry we so far away, I'd love to help you any way I could. Tim

But if you would want to give me a call at 913 839 1924 I can sure help you get started. Im a night owl so call anytime from 7pm to like 4 am.

Mike,
I don't know the answer to that question but it would be interesting to know. I have heated a couple HSS blanks into the straw range just trying to hog one down and it made the metal too soft to hold an edge unless you were cutting butter.

I don't know how you would figure out what composition these are, maybe Steve Lindsay or somebody up there at GRS might know. It would be worth a call.