Thoughts on engraving

Brian, thanks for the words of wisdom. What you said about beings 100% sure applies to everything in life, and I hope everyone realizes this. If you wait for all the right conditions, you will be still waiting in the nursing home. "Some day," are a couple of my favorite words, but I am learning to say " How about now." As for the engraving, I am just a beginner, green as first grass, but I do know that pure hard work put the best into the best engravers, not just talent.

Awwww……..c’mon Brian you left out the best bits like the part about the adulating crowds, the paparazzi, the autograph seekers, the private jets, the open cheque books, the groupies, trashing hotel rooms, your face on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine, the drugs, the wild parties, the fame and the fortune.

Cheers
Andrew

I too believe that what Chris has said is right. However, i am one who has not quit his day job. I am a goldsmith/designer/gemologist/pearl stringer/ and engraver, plus whatever else comes up. I am learning to letter, and have begun to sell some of that. i have put 60-70 pieces in jewelry cases both where I work and in another shop. The timing economically, stinks, but I have made that step. I have traded gun engraving for tools and classes at GRS. I intend to get to the place that I will be a full time engraver, but am being cautious.
I would like to be able to commit fully, but have a mortgage and credit cards and medical issues so must take it at a more rational speed.
One of the ideas I have had, for when I am ready to go full time, is to make several dozen business card sized pieces of Sterling Silver, engraved in scroll and bulino and lettered with my name and contact info, and distribute these to all the jewelry shops and gun shops and sporting goods stores in the area, gradually spreading my reach. I think that these would be a real item that customers could see, and choose to select.
I hope that the day I go full time isn't too far away, but until it gets here, I will continue to study and improve, in the knowledge that one day, soon, I won't have enough time to do all the other things I do...my engraving will demand my full time attention.
Will

Chris, thanks for starting this thread and everybody else on your input. I agree wholeheartedly on what's been said here.

About the business side of things. Scott Adams (creator of Dilbert comics) wrote once that to succeed on creating comic strips you need to know how to sell, or the marketing, not how to draw. There are many brilliant artists, but they don't market themselves and fail.

I've been working quietly on my (internet)marketing side for a while (1.5 years) and now I start to see little effect. For example my blog gets about 1000 hits per week and quite a few jobs come in from there. I've optimized my blog for some words like 'engraved zippo' and when you search for it in Google, two of my links are on front page, it really helps. Never underestimate the power of Google .

Problem is, general public usually can't afford to pay the fair price. So I sell Zippos with shipping and 12-14 hours of engraving on them for 100-120 USD. I imagine you can't live from this, at least in US. (In Estonia, minimum salary is 400 USD/month, so this isn't actually too bad, but still).

Tho I do want to go full-time at some point, I'm still few years away from it, my estimate is 3-4 years. During that time I can practice engraving, create quite nice financial reserve, work on marketing and practice even more.

Very intriguing topic, keep it up!

Andrew Biggs said:

Awwww……..c’mon Brian you left out the best bits like the part about the adulating crowds, the paparazzi, the autograph seekers, the private jets, the open cheque books, the groupies, trashing hotel rooms, your face on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine, the drugs, the wild parties, the fame and the fortune.

Cheers
Andrew

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Why sure, we all know that is exactly what we do when we go to Reno. I just did not want to get the new guys expecting that kind of lifestyle right out of the gate.

Chris, Thanks for this great topic-educational and relevent

For Ken Hurst, Ken you were out there in front building a thriving engraving biz - trained and inspired some of the very best-I would really like to get your take on building the biz.thanks Fred

Brian Hochstrat said:

Do you like Top Romen soup? You won't by the time it does come together. The reward, however, is that I never dread waking up to go to work,.

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Amen, Brother

except it was pinto beans in my days, we could'nt afford Romen noodles LOL

Marrinan --- Well, I have been following this thread and didn't think there ws much I could add to what the talented folks have already added. However, since you ask, I believe marketing is what kills off most aspiring engraver from flourishing. To wit, you must get out there and do lots of show and tell. It doesn't matter how good you are IF people aren't aware of you & where you are. If they don't know you, they certainly won't be out looking for you. Go to all the different gun shows and set up a table --- show your wares off. Something I tell a few of the guys I'm working with now is "Your focus will be your reality !" I have also preached to newbys, "make a friend and not a client --- a new friend will want to be a client" To often, engravers get tied up in trying to sell the commission to a prospective client. Note I use the terms client and commission --- I feel the words "commission and client" lends a higher level of respectabity & class to the engreaver . I know it just a few words but I have found it alters the way clients perceive you -- seems to put you on a higher level in theirmind. After all, artist are commissioned to paint portraits or scenes --- they have clients. Personally, I believe engravers are artist ! Even the NY mueseum of art has changed their opinion on engraving -- at one time it was considered a craft, it is now considered art. Don't know if this little bit of dribble will help much but hope it will. I have used marketing for some time and was able to keep as many as 40 people working fulltime when I had the company. Of course most of the work was production work however, engravers such as Tim George, Lisa Tomplin, Howard Dove (deceased) and Jon Robin & etc. came out of my shop. They applied the same rules I used & seems to be doing fine. If you want it, and are willing to bite the bullet & do the time, you'll fine a market IF you also market yourself. "Your focus will be your reality." Ken 910-221-5288

Learning engraving skills seems to be the main priority as should be, but mental adjustments are part of the game too, as well as marketing. Often times we sit in our comfort zones unwilling to upset the apple cart for various reasons, but sometimes the willingness to sacrifice will make a big difference in the speed in which you progress as a profesional, occupational, engraver. You have to play the game of success, and apply the criteria to acquire it. Making that mental adjustment to move on will usually cost you something. That is just the way it is.

If you are doing fine financially, there is not usually a lot of incentive, except for the inspiration that is out in the open today. That wasn't there in my time. Only my personal desire and passion were the forces that drove me, so I would say if the passion is not there, it would be best to go and do something else, or just do it as a hobby. Those fires however, are kept burning with the availability of excellent work for others to see. Then they know what is possible. Sam has done a monumental task of doing just that with this forum, and the gathering of brother and sister engravers has also been responsible for what is available today.

You have a lot to learn running an engraving business, and often times all of these things cut into your profit. That is just part of the game and how you play it. Remember, you are not making money if your hands are not moving, cuttng metal. When you get really busy, depending on what phase of engraving you are doing, time is of utmost importance, so photography, carpentry, PR, waiting on customers, answering telephones, Keeping the shop presentable, and all of those things cut into your profit. You have to allow for that, but that is why hobby engraving might be the best way to go because if you aren't willing to go all the way, you probably won't make it occupationally, especially if your financial demands exceed what you can make engraving in the beginning..............So stay where you are until you can make the leap with the least amount of damage. Making various mental adjustments will occur all through your carreer.

Thankfully we have a much more aware public today and like Ken said, it has become an art instead of a trade or craft. It is a whole different ball of wax now, and it has always been an extremely rewarding job.

I always hoped I would see this day of respect for engravers while I lived, and I have, and I am proud.

I never minded getting up and going to work, or working long hours. It don't get much better than that, but there are not really that many people with that kind of drive. That is why you guys are special.

But the most rewarding road is not ever the easiest, or the best paying, and I wouldn't trade my life for a millionare's who's life is possibly miserable.

Forward!!

Ron S

and I wouldn't trade my life for a millionare's who's life is possibly miserable.....Ron Smith

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Hey Ron

I would like to try being a millionaire and miserable for at least a day.....just so I could speak from authority on the subject. !! My Mum always said that money dosn't buy happiness ........but the trouble is I've never had enough to find out if that's true or not!!

See you in Reno

Cheers
Andrew

Some really insightful thoughts have been expressed here and I see a common thread (no pun intended) throughout. All the engravers posting here have a genuine love of the art. When people talk about perseverance and dedication, that's something you can't fake. If you love it so much that you get to your bench before the coffee is done brewing, you probably have the kind of stuff it takes to make things happen, and that can apply to any business. But that's just half of what needs to be done. All the suggestions for start-up operations described by Chris and the others are proven business plans that really work, providing one can deliver a professional product.

I started out on a leap of faith, just concentrating on learning engraving and establishing clients. I made several brass sample plates early on which I distributed to some of the finer jewelry stores. Later, I cut one plate in reverse and made intaglio prints, framed them under glass and distributed them to EVERYBODY. It wasn't long before I was ass deep in alligators. I became really proficient in repairing all the pieces I hacked up while learning to engrave silver plated stuff and what not, and learning what kind of jobs to NOT take. I never could price my work right, and always had a hard time charging the right money to someone I really like for something that I really loved to do.

Doing shows is also a great way to get your name out to the public. Gun shows, art shows, jewelry shows, coin shows. I did Renaissance festivals for about ten years before I finally had enough of that stuff, but had a pretty good thing going for a while. In 1992, I took another leap of faith and totally got out of the Ren fairs and tried to establish a private mint that focused on the numismatic market. I had to retire all my coining dies that pertained to all the fantasy themes and find something that appealed to discerning coin collectors. After playing around with some different ideas, I stumbled on to making reproductions of rare U.S. coins when I did a commemorative of the first U.S. silver dollar. Coin World magazine printed a four-page article on it that started on the front page, and after thirteen years of engraving, I became an overnight success. ;-)

Things went weird for circumstances I don't care to discuss, and after a three year hiatus I am now getting back into it, but still looking for that drive I once had, so this thread has helped me to remember a lot of what I knew at one time and helped to jump start me a little. Thank you Sam, and all my friends out there in cybergraverland.

Thanks, everyone for the posts. Being a newcomer, or a "newbie", I would like to throw in a word or two on a point that has not been covered. I have always been a hands on first, read the book later guy. I know that that there has been times that required a little bit of backing up. I have been inclined to tackle things just because I enjoyed doing so. Playing music for an example. When I was a kid , I wanted to play a fiddle. I never had a lesson or anyone to show or teach me, I just decided to do it.....and I did it. In my case, it might not have ever happened if I had went the formal route. As the years went buy, and I got to the point of playing country music for money, it seemed like it just wasn't as much fun as it used to be. We (the band) were good enough that we were not ashamed to play anywhere. Now the point is, there are certain things that you like to do simply for one's own satisfaction. My big regret is that I didn't start on my engraving a bit sooner........maybe 50 years sooner. I am 71 years old at this writing. This is for my satisfaction only. If I get lucky enough to turn out a piece that someone else likes, that's fine, but if that doesn't happen, it won't bother me a bit. I feel like a NASCAR driver that's run a race 10 laps behind, and finishes 1/4 lap down! So summing up the situation, if I can cut something that I'm proud of, and enjoyed every minute doing it, I'll be happy. Who knows, if I got good enough to go commercial, I might get bored and quit! I wish everyone a happy and prosperous new year, and maybe I can meet all of you.

Bryan E. Clary