Working backwards again, lettering

Steve Adams

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My regular job as a die engraver brings a lot of different things across my bench. This little number took place last week. The photo is after glass beading and before final stoning and cleanup. The LIBERTY had to be incised on a curved surface, it drops about .006 from Y to L. The face and hair don't bother me but leaving raised letters is still a pain. The photo is no indication, but the actual image is small. Most stones break down quickly with a point fine enough to work between the letters like this, but I have found a ruby stone quite useful in situations like this. You can shape it on a diamond wheel, and although it is aggressive, a lite touch will go a long way.
 

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Mike Cirelli

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Wow it looks great Steve. Unbelievable detail and the lettering is phenomenal. Your one of very few that can pull this off. Maybe you could give use a look at the token after it's stamped.
 

PAUL LANTUCH

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Steve, can you explain more about Ruby stone in relation to metal image?
Is this a die for ultrasonic cameo?
 

Steve Adams

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Thanks Mike, this will be a 39mm coin. Should I get a sample, I will take another photo. Wish I had remembered to take a photo when the die was finished. There is lettering and six point faceted stars around the portrait as well. I made a punch for the stars and did the outside lettering with a Gorton P1-2 pantograph.
Paul, The ruby stone ( very hard and red in color ) comes from Gesswein. I get the size that is about the thickness of a pencil lead, then put it in a drafting pencil holder. The ruby stone is mostly for stoning tight spots in hard steel, but I have found it works good on soft steel as long as you don't press hard. You have to shape the stone to your specific need on a diamond wheel. No oil is necessary, just gently rub to remove imperfections then follow up with a softer stone. This die will be used to strike coins.
Peter, The photo is before I stoned the die smooth. It was very much cleaner after that. You can still see some roughness if you look close. The die will be proof for striking.
 

Marrinan

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You are a true Master-A question on coining dies. I saw a program on televion about the US mint process used to create dies-as I recall they use a 1909 duplicating panograph which follow the contures of a plaster model about a foot in diameter-why do organ izations like the private mints skip this and create dies directly?-thanks Fred
 

Steve Adams

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This is an interesting question. I work for a private mint and have worked for several others. I think there may be a misconception about technology and who uses what. The fact is, both the private sector and U.S. Mint are both using the same technology. You are speaking of the Janvier reduction machine, a machine that cuts a die from a larger hard epoxy master taken from a plaster model. Private mints do use these machines, and several other like the Janvier. When I worked at Medallic Art Company there were a dozen or more of them. The last company I worked for used them, and the current company I work for uses them. 3D CNC and it's software along with a digitizer are the future replacing these reduction machines, but they will still have a use because they frankly do a good job.
Now on to your question. Even with reduction machines and 3D CNC available, private companies choose to cut dies directly because of time and cost. The U.S. Mint should follow the private sectors lead, but they are not concerned with cost because taxpayers foot the bill and there is no rush. Unfortunately it is also difficult to find good die engravers. I kind of wish they would get rid of the tern sculptor/engraver. A good die engraver can quite often finish a sculpted looking die in several days time. This skips the sculpting process, mold making and master process, reduction time and the die machining and clean up that follows. If my company needs a 3D die two or three days from now, there is really no other option than to do it directly. A sculptor would take the same amout of time, and you'd only have a plaster model. Some jobs are suited for die engraving, some are better suited for sculpting ( I do both ), but the better the engraver, the harder it is to tell the difference in the end product.
 

Steve Adams

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A Janvier machine
 

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Marrinan

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Steve, I thank you for giving me a bit more in-sight into the coining process-learning new things is one of my greatest joys and gives a clearer understanding of the world around us-As to the goverment involvement in the coining industry-who else would think that spend 2.5 cents to make a penny was good business. Thanks again Fred
 

PAUL LANTUCH

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Thank you, Steve, now it is clear with the stone.
In the past I did some work with Medallic Art Company when they where located in Danbury, Conn..
As for the Lady Liberty, can some softness be done on details? It's my two penny opinion, please, don't take it seriously.
 

Steve Adams

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Paul,The photo was shot before final stoning and buff. It would have been a little softer after that. I worked in Danburry, how about that.
 

PAUL LANTUCH

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Have you work there at time, when New Haven 350 Anniversary medal was released ? It was in 1987.
Than later 100 Anniv. Knights of Columbus medal?
In both cases I have retouch the pantofraph surface and edited some more details.
Is Medallic Arts still in business? They had moved to Dakota long ago.
 
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Scratchmo

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Very nice Steve. At 39mm, my guess it is to be a 1913 Liberty Head nickel as a one ounce silver round. Very cool..You mentioned you carved a star punch. The photo I see doesn't have the stars or lettering yet and was wondering if you have a jig for holding the punch square to the die. This is the biggest problem I encountered when first using punches. I found it almost impossible to hold the punch by hand and sink even just the word LIBERTY without the letters leaning one way, coming off the guideline etc. My partner at the time made a few different jigs, one which I use all the time to sink letters, dates, stars, etc. Just wondering if you made a similar device for die sinking. Also, I'm really impressed you could engrave the lettering in the negative like that, . I probably would have made a positive hub and just cut LIBERTY in the positive, then sink the working die from that hub.

As you know, reproductions of early U.S. coins are my specialty, and I know how demanding it can be. I'm really envious of all the other engravers who have much more artistic freedom. I'm always faced with the dilemma of trying to improve this or that, or adding a little flair here or there, and constantly have to remind myself to remain faithful to the original work, and trying to copy this style or that. It drives me nuts sometimes, and at the end of the day, it always seems to end up looking like my work anyway, or at least to me.

I'm rambling. Anyway, I hope to see the finished piece when you get one.
 

Steve Adams

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Paul, As a matter of fact I was at MACO in 87. Did you come into the sculpting studio once with an engraved pistol ? I divided my time between sculpting and dies at that time.
Ron, You are the king of coinage. I am lucky enough to do these old designs occasionally. Yes there were stars and lettering on this job, but because the coin is not yet released I only showed part of it. There are several ways I do faceted stars. Method one is marking the die first to get my orientation correct, then I simply take a V chisel and start shallow at each tip and go deeper towards the center of the star. Another way is to do the same thing with a pantograph and a V cutter. You have to be very careful floating the spindle by hand. Yet another way is to mark the die with the pantograph, cutting single lines that go deeper towards the center of the star, then follow it up with a star punch. The lines help the punch lock into place. If you are brave you just take the punch and have at it with no cuts to guide you. The star punch with facets is an art itself. Every engraver making punches knows this. I've not used jigs or die sinking, but I could see this being useful.
 

Steve Adams

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stars

Here are some star punches. The white arrow points to the punch used on the die.
 

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ED DELORGE

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Hello Steve, and Scratchmo. Thanks for all the good info.

I think I will change my ID name to WANTABE ENGRAVER.

Ed
 

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