Knifemaker's Contour Vise

ARM

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Kind Folks
Has anyone had experience with the CONTOUR VISE from GRS ???
Regrettably, we have had sad experiences with our knives sent out to Engravers. We think the Contour Vise would solve the problem of scratches and marks made during engraving. Any suggestions from Members would be immensely appreciated. A Friend has recommended THERMO LOC. Has anyone successfully and continuously used the stuff ??? We are in the process of confirming our order with GRS and needs finalise this.
Appreciative Thanks in anticipation.
ARM
 

Sam

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The Contour Vise will quickly adapt to many shapes and should offer protection for your knives. I think the fixtures made of Thermo-Loc are even better, but do require a bit more time to make. Many knives have been mishandled by engravers who don't take the time or simply don't know how to make holding fixtures that minimize stresses and protect fine custom knives. Any time you can spend educating them on what and what not to do will be time well spent.
 

monk

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no matter how or what is used to "anchor" anything for engraving, consideration must be given for the items overall strength and surface finish. also its' weak, or stress areas. if care isn't exercised here, one can ruin a thousand dollar knife or a 3 dollar family heirloom. either is not acceptable.
tira convinced me some time ago about thermoloc. have used it ever since. it will hold most anything that is not sensitive to the heat needed to form it. i've found you don't need a lot of the stuff. actually less is better in most cases.
i varnished a board, about 6 x 12" and routed a groove in it. handy for rolling little sausages of the stuff without burning your fingers. the groove keeps the little pieces from blowin all over the place. use a smaller piece of varnished wood to roll the heated piece to the size you want..
 

ARM

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The Contour Vise will quickly adapt to many shapes and should offer protection for your knives. I think the fixtures made of Thermo-Loc are even better, but do require a bit more time to make. Many knives have been mishandled by engravers who don't take the time or simply don't know how to make holding fixtures that minimize stresses and protect fine custom knives. Any time you can spend educating them on what and what not to do will be time well spent.
Mr ALFANO
We reckon the time spent making these knives and subsequently engraving them is just as important, both ways.
Jacques also suggested we try Thermo-Loc.
Between Your kind self, THE MONK (who shook the world ) and Jacques, U Folks have more experience with this than I have learning Years left, if I am lucky. :) :)
Just a couple questions, though.
Once clamped in Thermo-Loc, would getting the Knife/blade out pose any sort of problem ???
How abouts working on the Handle area ???
Would we be able to clamp the blade area securely to be able to work/ carve all around the
Knife Handle ??? And that includes both sides.
Of course, one would obviously need to carefully protect the Blade as well.
Working on the Bolsters would mean clamping the Handle area in Thermo-Loc. Would it not affect natural materials like Mother of pearl, mammoth Ivory, Hippo Tooth, Giraffe Bone etc.???
THE MONK did say it needed to be heated to be moulded to shape.
Do regret bothering U kind folks.
However, Your expertise in these things is indeed invaluable and immensely appreciated.
LORD BLESS and take care.
ARM
 

Tira

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ARM, The theromolock works well to hold almost anything, but it is a good idea to practice making a fixture with it before you move onto the expensive knife. It works by heating it up to about 140F (in a microwave oven or by heat gun) and then molding it around your object. When the thermolock cools to room temperature it is very strong and rigid.

If you were to put the thermolock directly all around the knife, it would be a pain to have the knife release easily. It could be done, but there is a better way. If you get a small plastic bag similar to the type1 HDPE bags we get here at the store to carry groceries in, you can cut a small piece of this thin plastic. Put the plastic around the knife and this will not allow the thermolock to directly contact the knife - and especially not get into the insides of it.

Now you can make a hinged fixture with the thermolock that is reusable and will be snug when clamped, but release when your vise is open. GRS, who sells the thermolock, has this instruction manual on their website.

http://www.Grstools.com/PDFs/GRS/LIT-312_ThermoLocBlock.pdf

On page 2 of the manual it shows how to make a hinged fixture. It explains the procedure complete with pictures.

The only other hint I have for you is make one on a practice knife first. You can over heat the thermolock to the point where it does stick to the plastic bag and then you have a mess. Better to work out the procedure on other items before moving to the fixture for the large expensive project. It is not very hard, but like all things takes a bit of experience and timing. :)
 

ARM

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ARM, The theromolock works well to hold almost anything, but it is a good idea to practice making a fixture with it before you move onto the expensive knife. It works by heating it up to about 140F (in a microwave oven or by heat gun) and then molding it around your object. When the thermolock cools to room temperature it is very strong and rigid.

If you were to put the thermolock directly all around the knife, it would be a pain to have the knife release easily. It could be done, but there is a better way. If you get a small plastic bag similar to the type1 HDPE bags we get here at the store to carry groceries in, you can cut a small piece of this thin plastic. Put the plastic around the knife and this will not allow the thermolock to directly contact the knife - and especially not get into the insides of it.

Now you can make a hinged fixture with the thermolock that is reusable and will be snug when clamped, but release when your vise is open. GRS, who sells the thermolock, has this instruction manual on their website.

http://www.Grstools.com/PDFs/GRS/LIT-312_ThermoLocBlock.pdf

On page 2 of the manual it shows how to make a hinged fixture. It explains the procedure complete with pictures.

The only other hint I have for you is make one on a practice knife first. You can over heat the thermolock to the point where it does stick to the plastic bag and then you have a mess. Better to work out the procedure on other items before moving to the fixture for the large expensive project. It is not very hard, but like all things takes a bit of experience and timing. :)
MS MITCHELL
At the outset allow me to sincerely thank YOU for taking up the time to respond to our enquiry.
And respond by clearing up all misgivings or possibility of errors.
Your detailed explanations could not be made any simpler.
Have already enquired from GRS about this Thermo-Loc.
Now that U have explained its use and application so well, we see no point in hesitating on ordering the stuff.
The only dilemma we are mentally battling with is the heat that needs be generated to make it pliable.
I mean, for example, the effect the heating process would have on natural Knife handle materials like GIRAFFE BONE, MAMMOTH IVORY, HORNS, MOTHER OF PEARL and EXOTIC WOODS. This would obviously mean that the Handle areas of the Knife cannot be moulded around. The alternate would be to mould it around the BLADE area.
Is this correct, if we may ask ???
Generally, embellishment on Knives is done by Engraving the bolsters.
However, with experience and in time, we see numerous possibilities in CARVINGS and WIRE INLAY in these Handles. At that time, the holding fixture would also be crucial.
Would the CONTOUR VISE not be more practical at that time ???
Your esteemed comments would be immensely appreciated.
Once again a hearty THANK YOU, MA'am.
ARM
 

lesholmes

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ARM, Thermo-Loc did not damage mother of pearl when I used it. 140 degrees Fahrenheit isn't very hot, I form soft Thermo-Loc with my fingers inside the thin plastic bag material. You would need to test it.

Good luck.

Les Holmes
 

KCSteve

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As Mr. Holmes said, anything you're willing to use as a knife part should be able to withstand hot ThermoLoc. 140F is only 60C.

There are some materials it will stick to so if you're in any doubt I'd test with a bit of scrap to see if it sticks or not. Most things seem like they stick but that's just an illusion. ThermoLoc holds by forming perfectly to the piece - when you make a coin holder with it the indentation is a very fine mold of the back of the coin.
 

Tira

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ARM, The heat needed to form the thermolock isn't very hot. When I take it out of the microwave I form it with my fingers. Now, I do keep it moving like a hot potato, but I can roll it or move it to the block and work on it from there. I have never tried it on giraffe bone, etc., but I think if it doesn't burn my skin it will probably be OK for the knife handles.

Another thought about the heat and releasing the knife. If you make the hinged fixture properly, once the thermolock is cool and in the shape you want, you will not have to have any heat involved. You would just open the hinge, insert the knife and clamp into your vise. It would only be if you did not make the hinged fixture and embedded the knife directly into the thermolock where you would need the heat to make it release. I have a heat gun, but I usually opt for a regular hair dryer to supply the heat when needed. It takes a bit longer but there is no real possibility of melting anything or over heating the object unless you put it right against the thermolock.

Having said that, the contour vise fixture is very cool too. I don't have one and have never used one, but I have seen one up close and they do look well built. Maybe someone who has experience with that product will give an opinion on it. Good luck! :)
 

monk

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my only opposition to the hinged method is you end up needing so many different ones. for that reason i quit using that technique. i place small, thin pieces of leather under the knife scales to protect them. then just a few strategically positioned lumps or sausages to trap the knife. the fewer pieces, the quicker the release. and now, thanks to tira, i'll be trying the plastic bag trick ! thanxx tira.
 

Doc Mark

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ARM.

I use Thermolock on ivory, cameo shell and other "delicate" materials without incident. The temp. of 140 degrees Fahrenheit is the same as green dopping wax that jewelers use. Once you learn a few tricks in making two piece and one piece "hinged" fixtures, you will never go back to any other type of holder. It's great stuff. If your work has the same size and designs repeated then carefully mark the Thermolock fixture for whatever knife it fits and you can use it over and over. If all the knives differ, then you can remelt the Thermolock material and remold it into whatever new shape you need. So it's not only versetile but also very economical.

Mark
 

d.soileau

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while at the GRS training center i was able to get my hands on and see the contour vise. it was then that i also was introduced to thermolock. as a tool guy id still love to have one, but must say that im liking the thermolock better. especially since ti dolds items without the need of pressure that could still crack weaker materials. ill probably still get the vise one day and use the thermolock with it as well. i see it as this... 1 lb thermolock cost how much? conyour vise cost how much? that made my decision.
 

ARM

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Gentle Folks
The matter has indeed been brought to absolute clarity with all Your lucid inputs.
Will keep U all posted when the nitty gritty commences.
Thanks a stack to each and every Contributor.
 

Big-Un

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I have the contour vice and it comes in handy once in a while, but thermoloc is the most used here. The vice is kind of bulky and gets in the way, plus it seems to need readjusting too much to suit my needs.

Bill
 

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