Engraving the "Dead" C scrolls with a 120

Roger Bleile

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For a moment I thought of calling the flair cut/transition scroll style the "dead" C scrolls but...nah, I'll stick with Ron's "flair cut" style.

Anyway in the Transition Cut Tutorial thread, Ed Delorge mentioned that he had tried cutting the flair with a 120 and I wanted to try it myself. The 120 is a little less forgiving of the lean of the tool but since it can cut wider more easily I think it may be the way to go.

In the pictures below, I cut everything with a 120 carbide with a 45 degree face and 15 degree heel except for the uprights in the lettering. I continued to use my Gravermeister but for much of the cutting I tried the blistering speed of 1200 strokes per minute!

As you look at my test plate keep in mind that this exercise was more like sketching with a graver. The only things I drew on the plate was the main spiral and I scribed the lines for the square around the central scroll. Everything else I just eyeballed and tried a variety of cuts going as fast as I could work.

Far left: Overall plate with some lettering I did without a layout. Don't try lettering without a layout unless you are Mike Duebber or someone else who has done an awful lot of it (I'm not one of those guys).

Next right: The main scroll and various borders I made up as I went along. I played around with different flourishes on each inside leaf with more or less success.

Third from left: The arrow points to an error I made due to inexperience with the 120 on this style. This happened when I was cutting the back cut (leaning the graver to the right) and didn't roll the graver back upright soon enough. Ouch!!! A lesson learned.

Far right: I really don't like the ugly "nose" I put on this leaf.

continued on post #2
 

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Roger Bleile

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Flare cut 2

Far left: I hate to point this out but you've probably detected where I screwed up the inner spiral. I had rubbed off the pencil line with my hand and lost track of where I was going. I did my best to recover but as I've said this style is somewhat unforgiving.

Far right: This was not made to be a symeterical design. It is just a bunch of test cuts I made to build skill with the 120 and check some effects.

I try to remember that as many flaws as there are in this test plate, most customers would simply be dazzeled by all of the beveled cuts and think it was great. Of course we engravers must be more critical or we will never improve. Also the high end gun and knife conniseur is also much more critical as they should be. The flare cut style looks elegant if properly done and can offer most customers a lot of bang for their buck.

Have fun cutting,

Roger
 

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ED DELORGE

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Hello Roger, your writings are a pleasure to read, the only suggestion that I have is that maybe, investing in a good used gravermax or maybe the new graver mach, with a good handpiece such as a 901 or maybe a monarch you might find urvana ( i think that is how you spell it ). Although I remember seeing some incredable work by Sam Welch with his graver meister. After reading Marcus Hunts description of the new light weight magnum handpiece I was truley tempted to order one. 4000 beats per minute is pretty sweet. I cant imagin 8000. I guess it might be like having a date with that girl you always dream about.

Thanks again for the new post.

Ed
 

Roger Bleile

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Thanks Ed, I've got a Lindsay Palm Control on the way. It should be here on Wednesday however I'm not sure if it will work as well as the "Ol' Faithful" Gravermeister for the flair cut style. We'll see pretty soon.

Roger
 

jlseymour

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Roger, I'm learning allot from your efforts, I tried some yesterday with the Palm Control and it does great, the main problem is me, I need allot practice at all forms of engraving...
Thanks for the help...
Jerry
 

KCSteve

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I've been trying it out with my Lindsay AirGraver - poor thing was struggling a bit in a steel practice plate but I could have turned the power up higher. It was making the cuts, just moving slow (which I figured was a good thing at this point). I'm still learning the fine points of working with it.

Haven't had a chance to try this out with my GRS gear where I've got more experience.
 

jlseymour

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Steve do you have the PC or another???
Open the holds for more bang if you have the PC...
I don't know about the others...
Jerry
 

Ron Smith

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As I said before, you are hogging a lot of metal, and I use the magnum. I bottom it out on some cuts in steel, but it does the job. The gravermeister will move a lot of metal with the right hand piece, and that is the name of the game here. It definately has the power. I don't know about Marcus' system. Sounds like it might be a step up to a more versatile tool and that is important. You cut out a lot of tool manipulation and that saves time and time is all you have to sell.

You might get a thinner version (narrower flares) with the monarch, but that might depend on the user some. I'll try it and report on it to let you know if it has enough power to do the job. I use the magnum for everything from heavy cutting to fine lines, no problem.

One of the really testy parts is using the hollow round. It has to be shaped so that you can get the full width of the tool for hollowing leaves. This takes a lot of power and considerable practice, so it is the most difficult tool in the chest for this style. This was one of the hurdles in my class that the students had trouble with. Getting the idea and understanding that the tool had to be shaped right, and rather precisely to get the desired effect, but then that is the value of the class. You might have trouble with this on your own, but with the instructor there you can get it resolved quickly.
 

KCSteve

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Jerry

The Classic had more power available but I didn't turn it up all the way - that's why I said it was a 'poor thing'. If I hadn't been holding it back it would have had enough power to slice right through, even as thick as I was slicing. But because I was trying to stick close on the line I was keeping it going slow on purpose. Next time I try it I'll probably crank it up and see if it's actually easier to control when it's moving fast and smooth. One other thing I've noticed is that sometimes I shift my grip so that I'm partially blocking the holes with my fingers which gives me a shorter (and slower moving) stroke than I want. Just started doing that so I need to pay attention for a couple of days and make sure I stop doing it.

Ron

Your right about it needing both power and practice. But even at my level I can see how it will go, once I've worked my way up to it. This definitely looks like a style that would go well doing demonstrations. Big flashy cuts, lots of metal flying around, and you've got a finished product in a short time.

Edited to add:

Ok, decided to try the often helpful trick of pretending I knew what I was doing. I cranked up the power, lengthened the stroke, kept my darn fingers off the holes, and whacked away. Much better. Even without the tungsten piston it was slicing right through the steel plate. BTW, I might be going a bit deep - the deep side of the cut is about 1/2mm. Did some shallower cuts and they worked even better. Still need to practice the various styles of this but it does look nice! Should look even nicer when I get my 'leaves' connected to something. ;)
 
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