Practice Plates For Beginners

When I first started engraving I found a cheap yet very nice way of making practice plates. I went to Hobby Lobby ,or similar type store ,and bought a few inexspensive rubber stamps and a ink pad . Stamped the plate
with the stamp ,and I was ready to start making chips . Nice clean crisp images that also can be used on glass for stippling I found this to be a cheap and practical way of practice. I hope anyone just getting started will find this helpful.

Great idea, I'll try it out. I got some practice plates from brownells, do you know of any other place to get some?

William,

First let me state that I am not aiming this directly at you or anyone else who chooses to use rubber stamps or transfer copyright free artwork - I am just throwing out some of my thoughts on the subject... Take 'em or leave 'em, they're NOT worth getting annoyed over.

One problem with rubber stamps (and yes, we use them in class) and the newest transfer methods is that it does not encourage people to learn to draw and come up with their own designs...

I use them in class because students want to cut something as soon as they get their gravers sharp - and we have very little time to delve deeply into drawing or layout in these 5 short days. There is SO much technical information to pack into so short a time. On the questionnaires I used to pass out - students would comment that they'd rather skip over the "boring parts" and get to the engraving as soon as possible.

Guess what was found to be "most boring"? Learning to sharpen gravers and design/layout! Well, you can't cut without sharp gravers - so I can't let 'em out of that one, but time has limited the coverage of layout and design to not much more than a short lecture. (Accompanied by lots of yawning)

I'm seeing more and more "paint by numbers" engravers. Don't need to draw your lettering anymore, don't need to draw your scenes, animals, or scrolls. Just get a big enough collection of fonts, a stack of CD's full of copyright free designs, stuff 'em in your computer - manipulate them, and instantly transfer whatever strikes your fancy. Now you can even buy Ron Smith's design pattern already laser transferred to a Buck knife. Just follow the lines...

People have gotten so used to the MacDonalds habit, that it carries over into everything. Gotta have it right now, don't wanna learn all the "petty stuff" involved in making meals or take the time to cook them - just wanna eat them!

Perhaps I'm just getting old, but it seems pretty sad to me... However, it may offer a huge opportunity to those engravers who do do their own artwork, and take the time to educate their clients on the difference between original work and an amalgamation of computer aided "copywork". Perhaps it's time for a new acronym? We have CAD for computer aided/assisted drawing - how 'bout CAC for computer assisted copying?

As a side note, I think I've already mentioned that I never eat at fast-food restaurants, so obviously I have to do some cooking... but then I don't watch television either, so that gives me the time.

Brian P. Marshall
Stockton Jewelry Arts School, Stockton, CA - USA
instructor@jewelryartschool.com - 209-477-0550

Brian: While I agree that there's no substitute for drawing and the satisfaction enjoyed by doing it, I will use the musician analogy that some musicians are content to spend a lifetime playing music written by others, and some are not happy unless they're composing their own. As for engravers, I think it depends on the person's goals. If the object is to become a professional and compete in the marketplace, then drawing is an absolute must. If someone wants to be a hobbyiest and just enjoy engraving copyright-free patterns, then that's certainly ok. I also believe that an engraver is cheating him or herself by refusing or resisting drawing. I can usually spot the computer transfer engraving quite easily, and while it can be an excellent learning tool, it will never be a substitute for a pencil in the hands of a skilled artist.

Sam

Never said it wasn't OK... just a little sad from my viewpoint.

I feel guilty every time someone reaches for a rubber stamp or an instant transfer rather than trying to do something original. I know it's not my fault - they make the choice. Just makes me feel sad to watch. Some may never even try to draw, because the attitude I am speaking of has become so pervasive.

I teach with these things, and I use them myself. In the first instance, because that's what students seem to want - and in the second, because clients are not willing to pay for original hand drawn work and the extra time it takes anymore. I have to remain competitive in some ways. (But I'm being dragged kicking and screaming all the way!

B.

William
Great idea ! While I'm still trying to teach myself how to draw I have found that tracing and transfer of the pattern does help me understand the drawing or contruction of a good scroll
Bob

Brian,
I only wanted to help people starting out engraving ,because to me drawing comes very hard ,and very discourging when you spend hours at it with poor results. I believe that after a while once someone realizes their potential that then they will start to develope their own drawings ,and style .I don't think that copying every thing you engrave is the way to go ,but to start out trying to draw ,and engrave as a beginner can be very frustrating , and discouraging to the point of people giving up. I think everyone would like to do their own original work , and if they stay at it long enough and get where their engraving is decent they will develope their drawing skills , and own style. Just trying to help.

Webad ,
I make my own practice plates from brass & steel , I believe you can buy them from GRS as well as Brownell's.

Brian, Well, a man after my own heart! Only been at this a couple years but have noticed most of the design stuff is copied by whatever method. I struggle with scroll and it shows but I can draw it ,just have trouble making the leaves look right. I try to draw at least a 1/2 hr every day. Although I can draw script etc, I will copy the smaller stuff cuz my 58 yr. old eyes don't play along with the game.
I don't eat fast food either, it turns my stomach. I'd rather eat baloney on white plain.
I don't have a cell phone. I don't watch TV outside of discovery or history channel. I have hunted with a flintlock rifle for 25 yrs. even during "gun season". I drink cheap beer & smoke good cigars.I like good brandy.
I do greatly enjoy this forum. I envy all these professional engravers that self-lessly give their precious time & talent to this forum.
You're right , most everybody wants to skip the "hard" stuff and get to the meat. One thing I learned from Meek's book is , if the design is crummy no amount of good cutting can fix it. The design is the cornerstone of the engraving. Without computers, some engravers wouldn't be, But that's what makes the world go round.
Still drawin' away,
Happy New Year,
Kent
P.S. hope I'm not kicked out after this is read, I truly would never insult or try to offend anyone here, just my $.02 worth. been called a curmudgeon on occassion.

Webad, go to muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com & they have sheet mild steel in 3"x6" lengths plenty heavy enough for practice. U can cut em' up yourself to suit. They also has brass & nickle sheet also.
The price is very reasonable also & good service too!
Kent

William,

My post was directed more toward the dangers of “instant gratification” - than the use of a particular technique for transferring a design to be engraved – be it ink stamps, transparencies, or laser COPIES of someone else’s work.. Obviously, I am not including ORIGINALS that are hand drawn by any method (including creation in the computer) and then scanned and transferred.

Therein lies the crux of the matter. Students who choose not to waste time learning to draw may never become more than “hobbyists”. That’s fine too, as long as they are fully aware of their choice and make an educated decision. The hobbyists are the ones who keep the tool manufacturers in business! Professional engravers would never buy enough to support a factory like GRS. Hobbyist volume keeps the price of tools reasonable for the rest of us.

But those who are on the borderline – those who just need a gentle push to get them started – may never become the professional that they could have been… if they were never made aware that they must understand drawing and layout. Which takes time, and does not result in the immediate satisfaction everyone is becoming accustomed to. (It’s gotta be done in what is fast becoming the “old fashioned” way)

Engraving is no longer in danger of becoming a “lost art” – but will engravers who can draw and do good layout be in danger of becoming extinct?

I'm simply trying to encourage more people to at least think about it. Try drawing your patterns. Who knows, if you never try it, you'll never know whether you have a budding/hidden talent? Learn the cutting at the same time you learn to draw if you possibly can... if not, THEN look to the copying of repetitive patterns... but please keep trying to draw too – don’t give up…

Whatever you decide to do, in whatever order suits your learning style - keep doing it. Carry it as far as you can, and then hold your breath and JUMP to the next level! DO something different!

Remember one other thing: If you think you CAN'T learn to draw - you're right... if you think you CAN learn to draw - you're also right...


Brian P. Marshall
Stockton Jewelry Arts School, Stockton, CA - USA
instructor@jewelryartschool.com - 209-477-0550

Well I now know I am on the right track. I was thinking I was just going a little crazy with the engraving drug.

As hard edge and blunt as JC is sometimes I have to say he is right.

The thing is the computer has its place in the engraving studio. Heck mine saves me a lot of time. That being said, I have yet to find a computer program that can take the place of my pencil and paper. A computer works through a system of "artificial intelegence" and I stress the "artificial". True intelegence is needed to create and design. Until a computer can think for itself it cannot do anything but serve as a time saving tool in some areas.

I do use a computer a lot. I often use Poser or Daz Studio to pose my figures and set up my compositions. Now even with these programs as avdanced as they are they still can't do some things as well as my pencil can. Yes I can render a compostion from start to finish with Poser but it will take three times as long as doing it with a pencil... and the image you get will not transfer and cut as nicely as a pencil or ink drawn image will.

Ray

I am a new engraver about a year come January. I, like a lot of the forum am way past 50. I don't think with the artistic side of my brain but I love to work with my hands. For close to 40 years I have been practicing gunsmith. I loved to checker a fine piece of walnut, but as time goes so do the eyes. Checkering meet my artistic needs and I missed it. Engraving has filled that void. I am not an artist never have been never will be. But I love to engrave. I have studied scrolls and scroll design & Mr. Smith’s books; I have learned to draw scrolls with great trepidation. I have engraved Buck knives that have Mr. Smith designs that match the designs in his books. They were an unbelievable learning tool. And I highly recommend them to any beginner; tight radius or not. I have been able to attend two classes at GRS. Beginner class with Mr. Eaton and Intermediate Engraving with Mr. Alfano, in which I demonstrated my lack of artistic abilities on a daily bases. But I enjoy engraving more then checkering. I am working with my hands and I am working with metal. How or where I get the pattern is not of importance as long as I deal with it ethically once I have engraved it. As a beginner we are starved for things to engrave and we become frustrated when our designs do not look like we think they should. Stamp on. Learn to engrave and enjoy what you do. J.W. Fanning said it all: “Our Role is to honor tradition without becoming traditionalist”.

Thanks all for your insight

Having set up the engraving school at Montgomery Tech, N.C. & instruced there as well as having up to 40 emplotees that we trained at my Co. , I agree wholehardedly with JC and Ray . There isn;t any substitute for learning to draw. I feel the "fun stuff" is only fun if you have a decent design to cut. PLEASE people, listen to the years of experience speaking to you and follow their advice. I personally have 48 tears exp. and Mr. John B. has even more --- goodness knows how many years of experience all these other engravers can add but you can bet they certainly know what they are talking about. Past employees of mine all started at the bottom & worked for weeks (8 hr's. a day) practicing the basic cuts And drawing. Many of them are doing very well at this point due to their dogged practice of the basics. FWIW, Ken

As a total Newbie I apreciate Williams suggestion. And may do just as he said for a time.
I also agree that there is no substitute for creative design and layout training.
As one who has for most of his 56 yrs considered himself to be incapable of drawing anything beyond stick men. I just picked up a sketch pad since I started on this forum and have began drawing for at least an hour each night. Wonder of wonders the light is beginning to come on very dimly! Somewhere deep inside there just may be a creative bone?
I suspect everyone must travel down their own path .
A friend once told me to enjoy the journey not race through life to get to the destination.
Makes a lot of sense, some of the neatest place I've been was when I got off the Freeway and waundered aimlessly.

Hey yall if yall want some practice plates that are allready polished with a curved surface try some spoons you can get them from goodwill ten for a dollar please DO NOT use your wifes it wasent pretty

It's very funny to hear the explanation about the way of you are learning the students Mr.Brian P. Marshall. You are saying that:

I use them (rubber stamps) in class because students want to cut something as soon as they get their gravers sharp - and we have very little time to delve deeply into drawing or layout in these 5 short days. There is SO much technical information to pack into so short a time. On the questionnaires I used to pass out - students would comment that they'd rather skip over the "boring parts" and get to the engraving as soon as possible.

I think as you are a good teacher you must to give the other classes also. Designing the monograms, styles of scrolls and etc. But everything stoped when there all about the time of classes. It is easy to say that people do not want to draw, to think and to make. Of course it much easyer for them to get some CD and ready patterns. But as a teacher what did you do to gain their interest. The only thing I think you know that a lot of your students will never become good engravers. They will be doing ordinary work and never get own style and name. Actually it is not "and we have very little time" . This is only students have little time. Well, if you know it's not enough time why to spend time if you know the result? To make courses longer? It means higher price for classes. But how is it possible to get enough info and to run at home after the courses buying and using different peoples ideas, and then nobody will by them, maybe that the piont when the students starts to get the meaning of what they been told in first hours of classes.

And the main part to all I said it is good to know that you are worrying about all this staff. It means only that you are good person. And if people do not want to learn, that is not your problem. Take care of one student from fifty, and soon you will get the result. IMHO

Dimitry,

The problem lies in the time frame. A minimum of eight, most often closer to ten hours per day. Five days. Most students do not want to spend more time than that. They have traveling expenses, jobs to get back to, all kinds of other reasons why. So we try to work within that time frame. It has become customary in my country to teach in very short intensive bursts. Seminars lasting two or three day are common. Even hands on workshops in specific metalsmithing skills are often only two or three days long.

Students start to lose attention pretty quickly. The first thing that seems to be on most minds is to engrave something - ANYTHING! They want to see if this really works. RIGHT NOW! If you don't give them something to engrave, they quickly get bored. And yes, we start with simple straight line borders, cutting to the right, to the left, in circles and all of the "standard" exercises - long before we get to the point of attempting any kind of a "real" pattern.

In Europe and in your country people are not in such a rush to do everything right away. The art of layout and design is taught first, as it should be. Over months of time, as it should be. I learned more or less the same way.

Things have changed a lot during my lifetime. Most students I see now are in their late 40's and up. Some are professional metalsmiths/jewelers looking to add a skill. These people are already professionals. They understand metals. They learn very quickly.

Others have seen the wonderful works on display on these forums and at other websites. They often have little or no background at all to support their ambitions to become engravers. They come for 5 days and expect to be able to do something after they leave. I do the absolute best I can to please them in any way possible. This means that I have to cram as much as I can into a very limited time frame. I customize each workshop according to the majority preferences of the students who attend.

I am VERY aware that this is not the best way to do it. I say so, straight to the students - on the first day of each and every class I teach. Quote - word for word -"Taking this workshop will NOT make you an engraver. It WILL give you the most basic skills to become one. YOU must take these skills, ADD to them, and USE them for many months or years to become a competent engraver. If anyone ever says to you that they can make you an engraver in just 5 days... they are lying to you". End of quote.

How am I going to fit more than tiny fraction of what really needs to be taught into the time frame I am given to work with? I wish it could be different... and that was part of the reason behind why I posted what you read.

But the simple reality is that if I offered a one month or even a six month workshop, which is still nowhere near enough time - there would be too few students willing to spend the time and money. What is the solution?

Remember you are in a different country, and you have not yet been infected with the "instant gratification" syndrome I was writing about... It will come to you too. Our country seems to export this silliness in huge quantities all over the world.

Do you have private schools specifically for engraving in your country? How much do they cost and how long does it take to finish a course of education?

Brian