Question: FFL in the Gun Free School Zone

Choppers_rule

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Hi all,
I'm in a process getting my FFL to engrave and I live within a school zone. By law, the firearm must be unloaded and IS CONTAINED WITHIN A LOCKED CONTAINER when it leaves my premises.
What does "CONTAINED WITHIN A LOCKED CONTAINER" mean?
- Is a secured plastic gun case (comes with a new firearm) consider as a locked container?
- Is shipping box secured by shipping tapes consider as a locked container?

Per the email from the local ATF agent: The regulations do not state what that means.
So, I'm confused:thinking:
 

JJ Roberts

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Chopper rules,Deeny,You have to be 1,000 feet from a school,till the ATF agent you get just gun parts and only through the mail.You may need a safe I had an agent ask me about were is the nearest school was and told her on the other side of town the school bus comes around 6:am.good luck. J.J.
 

SamW

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I would think that means a hard case (plastic or metal) with a lock (key lock, padlock or combination lock)...at least that is what crossed my mind when during my last inspection the agent said that if a school was ever started near me, my shop would become a "lock case" premise. Others may think (or know) differently. I was just happy to know it would not automatically shut me down!
 

JJ Roberts

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I know that there has to be gun owners who live less then 1,000 feet from a school,is that a problem with the ATF or the town politicians?why is it a problem with us gun engravers?:thinking: J.J.
 

Choppers_rule

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I would think that means a hard case (plastic or metal) with a lock (key lock, padlock or combination lock)...at least that is what crossed my mind when during my last inspection the agent said that if a school was ever started near me, my shop would become a "lock case" premise. Others may think (or know) differently. I was just happy to know it would not automatically shut me down!
So if I'm sending a customer firearm back with a lock, where do I put the key for the lock? In the same box?
 

Choppers_rule

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Chopper rules,Deeny,You have to be 1,000 feet from a school,till the ATF agent you get just gun parts and only through the mail.You may need a safe I had an agent ask me about were is the nearest school was and told her on the other side of town the school bus comes around 6:am.good luck. J.J.
JJ, I'm within 700 feet from a school but apparently it's ok as long as the gun is contained within a locked container when leaving my property which the ATF agent doesn't really want to give me a specific what consider locked container.
I'm not allowed to have customers on my property unless I pay $300 per year for land use license through the county which I'm not going to do. It would be through the mail only.
 

JJ Roberts

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Denny,You can do with out the $300 per year,is that written down in there rule book? J.J.
 

JJ Roberts

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Denny,I'm from New Jersey sure glad we moved to Virginia thanks to my wife's job I'd never be able to have FFL and work out of my house.Fairfax county just across river they want you to have a store front to deal in guns. J.J.
 

dlilazteca

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Honestly that is a question for the ATF and then you might get different answers, your best bet and for your records is to email them, when you get a reply i would print it and save it, so when you get your yearly inspection, and the rookie ATF agent tells you otherwise you can have that email to cover your rear end.

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Choppers_rule

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Honestly that is a question for the ATF and then you might get different answers, your best bet and for your records is to email them, when you get a reply i would print it and save it, so when you get your yearly inspection, and the rookie ATF agent tells you otherwise you can have that email to cover your rear end.

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Thanks Carlos, I will keep the email even though the agent didn't answer my question:(
 

jim garrett

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Based on my years experience dealing with ATF, it is much easier to work with them than with an HOA. I am so thankful that I have moved back to LA.....Lower Alabama!
 

gcleaker

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My two cents is just go and buy a small safe / gun locker. The extra step can never hurt your application and who knows it may save you getting ripped off. My safe is secured to the concrete floor with red head lag bolts.
skill comes from diligence.
 

jim garrett

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LA really extends from immediately west of Tallassee, Florida west to the Mississippi state line. I live in Lillian, Alabama which is just across Perdido Bay from Pensacola. We have one traffic light but it does have a turn signal. I have considered getting and putting up some radioactive waste signs around Lillian to keep developers from spoiling it like they have much of the costal areas. Fairhope is only a short drive from Lillian and it is considered one of the best retirement destinations in the country.
 

takedeadaim

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I would think that means a hard case (plastic or metal) with a lock (key lock, padlock or combination lock)...at least that is what crossed my mind when during my last inspection the agent said that if a school was ever started near me, my shop would become a "lock case" premise. Others may think (or know) differently. I was just happy to know it would not automatically shut me down!

One must NEVER "think" when dealing with the ATF, DEA, IRS or other agencies. Get an answer from them in writing and keep several copies. If they will not clarify what a container is then just get them to write that down. That way two years from now when that guy is gone to another office and your dealing with another agent, or even worse ASAC, who has another opinion or interpretation you can get out your letter and say I was going off what I was told in this letter; Has the law changed? Years ago I had a battle with a new ASAC over what color ink I used in my log book. You would have thought I was handing out pistols and a free box of ammo outside the Methadone clinic, in a school zone, and not completing all the proper paperwork in triplicate. It turns out there is not rule about ink color, just someone's ego making them think they could make such determinations.
 

mitch

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You would have thought I was handing out pistols and a free box of ammo outside the Methadone clinic, in a school zone, and not completing all the proper paperwork in triplicate.

thx for this morning's laugh.
 

Ed Westerly

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If I am understanding your dilemma, you need to get the gun from your premises to the shipper. In that case you would buy a locking hard case that will hold the largest gun you will ever work on, and use it for transport to the shipper.
 

dave gibson

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If I am understanding your dilemma, you need to get the gun from your premises to the shipper. In that case you would buy a locking hard case that will hold the largest gun you will ever work on, and use it for transport to the shipper.

That's what I'm thinking, sooo what if it leaves your premisses in a locked safety box and got transferred in the parking lot into a different box for shipping??? I'm always looking for loopholes in wording.
 

diandwill

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That's what I'm thinking, sooo what if it leaves your premisses in a locked safety box and got transferred in the parking lot into a different box for shipping??? I'm always looking for loopholes in wording.

I don't work on firearms, but if you are looking for loopholes in wording to try and slip one past the ATF or any other Govt agency, don't worry...you will be out of business and maybe in prison soon.

You can use their answers or non-answers as a defense, a loophole will not do it.
 
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