Question: Compatibility of brands

Hi all

I am very interested in an engraving career.
I have a selection of hand push Ferri HSS gravers, but not much success with them, apart from a straight copper inlay on a coin.

I have made a few plastic graver templates out of plastic cutting board from instructions and templates from Shaun Hughes.
Unfortunately they are not perfect and the gravers come out not as perfect as i would like.
I have been using Piano Wire for the time being until I order some HSS rods.(also cheaper to practice sharpening with)

Here goes my question...
I Have ordered an Ensharp Versa Fixture from a local company.
Will the collets fit with the Lindsay system?

Do the Lindsay collets only take square gravers, if so will the Ensharp Versafixture accept square gravers.

I plan on ordering the Cheapest Lindsay handpiece and regulator.
I like the System Lindsay offers due to its simplicity, am I wrong on this point?

Lastly I decided on a graver fixture rather than the Lindsay templates due to its possibilities, also I do not want to buy a new template every time i want a new shape!

A bit of a ramble but any insight is much appreciated.:thinking:

Justin V,
Sorry to hear you are not having luck with hand power.
I am not familiar with some of the tools your are talking about and others can advise you.
But as far as the Lindsay Handpiece you are considering I would advise buying the foot controlled Classic even if price is important.
This handpiece has an adjustment collar that allows you to vary the power of the impacts, which is a valuable consideration.
Not to take any business away from Steve or ANY tool maker but you might even wait and find this tool in the Buy Sell column at a lower price.

Justin,I recommend you take an engraving class or get with an engraver in your area for a sit down talk before you invest in any tools. J.J.

Your best bet is to read a lot of the old threads. The more you know about all of the tools and tooling that is used, the less "buyers mistakes" you will make. While you are reading keep notes and the source of the note, there is a lot to absorb, and you will only remember parts of it. With you notes you can reference back to that source and reread it. The 2 keys to engraving are the sharpening and drawing, once those 2 start to fall in place, the rest will follow.

As to the tooling, I am not sure what is compatible with what. My stuff is generally homemade, the hone, the sharpening jig, the vice, etc.. Hang on and wait, someone that will eventually sell out when they lose interest, or decide that engraving is not for them, the bargains do occasionally show up. The "road to engraving" is tough, and some will abandon their dreams, and sell out to fund a new dream.

Almost anything can be made to work together with a few tweaks...

For many, many years everyone was led to believe that graver blanks "ought" to be square, even though all the same "magic" alloys are available as round drill bit blanks. For 80% less than the retail price of an "official graver blank"...

GRS saw more profit to be made by recently changing over their entire emphasis to the round drill bit blanks - which of course require a collet for each in order to sharpen and use them.

Lindsay has remained with the square limitation - even though his tools all accept 1/8" rounds.

So you get around the square limitation by simply grinding an indexing flat about 1/2" long on the butt end your 1/8" drill bit blanks, sharpening them in whatever indexable fixture you wish - using the flat to line them up. (collet or not)

Then use the same flat to line them up in nose of the Lindsay Airgraver using either the thumbscrew or one of the setscrews.

Easy, cheap, and saves you the extra price of a collet for each individual graver when you use the Lindsay over the GRS system. (as well as the cost of a collection of 20+ templates - if you use a universal indexing sharpening fixture instead of templates)

Do the math - and if it matters - then choose accordingly. Either system will give you the results you need.

I choose whatever gets the job done efficiently and economically.


Brian

"The "road to engraving" is tough, and some will abandon their dreams, and sell out to fund a new dream." Very true. Happens frequently.

Since you state at the beginning "I am very interested in an engraving career." it helps to have some idea of your age and background. Further it helps to know if you wish to engrave guns, jewelry, motorcycle parts, knives, or musical instruments. Also put your location in your profile. You may be surprised to find an engraver near you.

The more you tell us about yourself the more we can help. If you wish to remain a mystery, good luck.

Also go to http://www.engravingglossary.com/ to learn the names and definitions of the tools and styles of ornament we use.

GRS saw more profit to be made by recently changing over their entire emphasis to the round drill bit blanks - which of course require a collet for each in order to sharpen and use them.

Click to expand...

I’m not trying to hijack this thread but I would like to make a comment on Brian’s post.

Did your reply really need to include a personal slam to GRS?

Yes, GRS has recently brought out a complete line of C-Max and Glensteel gravers from round blanks. Both are proprietary blanks and not just merely “drill blanksâ€￾.

There are several reasons these were brought out besides a profit margin.

A few include the fact they can be installed in a collet to allow quick and accurate sharpening with the GRS sharpening systems.

It allows special shapes and traditional shaped gravers to be machined in house at GRS so production and quality control can be monitored.

The cost of the blanks are much lower to the consumer. In most cases nearly half of the price of a square Glensteel or C-Max blank.

Since the introduction of the C-Max line customers in the US and dealers worldwide have been begging for shaped gravers such as the onglette for their engraving needs. The round blank was a natural choice to make these gravers.

If your engraving equipment or sharpening systems do not work well with the round blanks all the previous gravers are still available.

I have been engraving for over 30 years and was involved in the testing of both the C-Max and Glensteel round blanks. I found them much faster to initially shape and resharpen with the GRS systems. While I have not tried to the other systems it sounds like you have a solution for that problem.

Just like beer or pickup trucks, debates on what is best can be a personal opinion and I’m not saying everyone should use the round blanks. If you do prefer to use them GRS offers and extensive line of them or still offers the original line as well.

Yes, I am sure they hope to make a profit on them but as you can see there were many other reasons as well.

Collets, would be one of those reasons? (That is basically what I said. I think?)

ALL companies are competing (add in NGraver & Tira) and each will try to define and separate what they do - as well as try to limit the interchangeability between the respective systems. That is supposed to bolster loyalty to one brand over another, I suppose...

But there is always a way around it. And if quality of the end result is not compromised - why wouldn't someone cobble together a combination of systems that is more economical if that is their goal?

After all, Rex, the title of the thread was "Compatibility of brands" was it not?


B.

The point of my reply was I didn't think slamming GRS (or any other company) was relevant to the thread and also to inform that all of the original gravers are still available.

Brian Marshall said:

And if quality of the end result is not compromised - why wouldn't someone cobble together a combination of systems that is more economical if that is their goal?

B.

Click to expand...

I would say it is possible, I took the Shaun Hughes system and created my own collets for it using my Taig lathe. I don't believe making a adapters would step on the proprietary "toes" of the manufacturers. It also might just get them to offer adapters so their stuff can be used on the other suppliers. Think of it as "hot rodding" in the engraving industry.

Rex, I don't see what I wrote as a particular slam against anyone. Using that kind of logic would mean that when I state that the car driving down the road outside my house my is red - I am "slamming" the driver for choosing red? I think not.

If you define "slamming" in that way, then there is an equal one towards Lindsay and not needing a box full of templates - if you should choose to use Tira's or the GRS indexing sharpening system.


What I said - summed up - was MY answer as to whether you can mix up the brands and make them work together. You CAN.

It can be be for convenience, preference/loyalty or total cash outlay.


If it is for cost - then do the math.

GRS uses a collet system - this is a fact. For example IF the average engraver (not hobbyist) using that system seems to need around 40+ collets @ $6.40 = $256 for example.

The new GRS Apex Dual Angle is $265 to $305. The Versasharp is $275. Say 10 common Lindsay templates are an average of $23 ea. & that equals $230, plus the holder. So maybe $260 total?

But the Lindsay sharpening system does not accept round blanks... (yet?) The Apex and the Versasharp do. Justin has already chosen the Versasharp. That WILL do what he needs done with either square or round blanks in any geometry that I can think of.

The only tweak he needs to make - IF HE DECIDES TO GO WITH A LINDSAY TOOL - which was his question - is to grind a little flat onto the end of his 1/8" round blank so as to be able to index it into the same position each time he changes a graver... and he needs NO collets.

This is the answer to the question he posed - which was Can he do it?

Yes, he can.


B.

Thanks all for the invaluable insight. So it appears there is a way for the versa sharp fixture to work with the Lindsay hand pieces.

As for who I am?

I am a 23 year old South African, I work for a designer jeweller as a retail salesman for a year but have resigned. I know, how can I resign from a designer jewellers employment when I want to learn to be an engraver, simply because the owner was not trained in the art of engraving nor does he implement engraving in most of his work.

I have got my sights set on an internship with another jeweller who was trained as an engraver.

I actually dropped out of highschool pretty close to graduating because I was not coping with some personal issues, so I see engraving as a wonderful opportunity to open many doors for me and help me achieve something in my lifetime.

Thanks All

Justin,


Go back into your signup and add to it where you are from - what city?

You may find that other engravers are on the forum and near you...


Brian

High school was the most soul sucking and useless thing that I ever have done in my life. (Art classes notwithstanding).
Persue knowledge. And get your 'grave on!

Chujybear said:

High school was the most soul sucking and useless thing that I ever have done in my life. (Art classes notwithstanding).
Perdue knowledge. And get your 'grave on!

Click to expand...

Did you mean pursue knowledge or go to Purdue University to get knowledge?