Inlay Punches

pmace · Aug 26, 2017

Ok, I've started down the road of inlay. I've got the undercut or displacement tools ground up and can actually get the copper wire to stick pretty good in a cut. Both methods work but I like the displacement method. It just seems a little more forgiving at this point.

My question is what to use as a punch to force the wire into the cut. I've got a square graver blank ground to a round point with a flat face a little bigger than the diameter of the wire. That works but I can't see the point and keep missing the wire and leaving divots in the work or in the side of the inlay. Is there some secret tool that lets you see where you're going or is it a matter of getting the feel for where the point is? Is there some way to use my air graver to do it or is it strictly hand work? Thanks.

John B. · Aug 26, 2017

I prefer to use a 1/8 inch round brass punch. It's just a piece of brazing rod in a metal handle that I drilled a 1/8" hole in.
Some people use a slightly rounded steel punch. Not my choice.
Steel can damage the surrounding metal if you are not careful or if the punch slips off the inlay.

Archie Woodworth · Aug 26, 2017

I second the brass punch too...seems less likely to damage the receiving metal using the brass vs steel.
Tho I readily admit Im no expert ... :shock:

Dave London · Aug 26, 2017

FYI You can also damage steel with a brass punch. Don't ask how I know this

YMMV

speeedy6 · Aug 26, 2017

Try using the square blank on its side. The blank covers a large area and won't leave an impression if you hold it flat (on flat work). And having such a low profile it's easy to use under the microscope. I use a variety of punches and drifts too but I use a square blank regularly when inlaying .

John B. · Aug 26, 2017

Dave London said:
FYI You can also damage steel with a brass punch. Don't ask how I know this YMMV

Sorry to hear about your problem Dave.
Did you pick up some debris on the end of your punch? Or just hit it too hard on some fairly soft steel?
I don't have a problem seating inlays into gun steel or even plain mild steel such as belt buckles using a brass punch.
I keep the end of the punch clean and dressed by rubbing it against a sandpaper block from time to time.
You probably know you can fully seat 24KT gold into steel, assuming a good undercut with nothing more than heavy pressure on a burnisher.
As long as you see the top of the 24KT gold turn shiny from the heavy burnisher you can be sure it is fully seated into the undercut.
This works for seating 24KT into mother of pearl, horn or anything that might crack from the blow of a punch.

jerrywh · Aug 27, 2017

When you make your brass punches be sure to round off the edges of the punches. don;t leave any sharp edges on the punches. That will help stop the problem on denting the work piece. Sounds like you need some magnification.

pmace · Aug 27, 2017

Thanks guys. I've tried laying the square down on its side and tapping it and it works pretty good. Still leaves dents if you hit it too hard. Using the face of the punch sets the copper wire quickly before it can work harden plus you don't have to hit it so hard. I'm working under the scope so I can see pretty good. I'm going to try the brass punch idea. I might try grinding an old pair of tweezers to hold a piece of brass at 90 degrees just to get my fat fingers out of the way. Off to the hardware store!

Dave London · Aug 27, 2017

Hi John
Yep heavy hand and slipping punch, but that was a long time ago.new engraver mistake

MoldyJim · Aug 27, 2017

I have had good luck with a textured face on the punch.
Tap the punch down onto an old ******* file a couple of times, rotating it so it cross hatches the face.
It seems to hold the wire better to start, and not slip or spread the metal as much.
Granted, I haven't done much gold inlay, mostly copper, brass and silver.

MoldyJim · Aug 27, 2017

Okay, bast**d file.
Legitimate name, not a profanity.

pmace · Aug 27, 2017

All this stuff winds up being tiny. Tiny gravers, tiny chisels, tiny wire, tiny punches. You need one of those DaVinci robots surgeons use to manipulate everything. Wonder if you can pick one up cheap on fleabay? The learning curve may be kinda steep though......

John B. · Aug 27, 2017

pmace said:
All this stuff winds up being tiny. Tiny gravers, tiny chisels, tiny wire, tiny punches. You need one of those DaVinci robots surgeons use to manipulate everything. Wonder if you can pick one up cheap on fleabay? The learning curve may be kinda steep though......

If you are using a pneumatic handpiece you can put a short piece of brazing rod or plain brass in it to set the inlay.
Put the brass rod on top of the wire, start the handpiece and draw it down the wire. It sets and stretches the wire, saving material.
Keep the end of the brass clean and textured by rubbing it on a sandpaper block.
And take a small flat screwdriver and sharpen the blade to a knife edge. Use the FLAT of the blade to hold or start the wire into the groove.
The sharp edge is handy to cut the wire off by holding down and lifting up on the wire.
It's much easier to actually seat the inlay wire without using a microscope.
Glasses and/or an Optivisor work just fine for most people.

pmace · Aug 27, 2017

Thanks John. As always your tips are spot on. I am going to try both of these. I like the idea of using a sharpened screwdriver to manipulate and cut the wire. I can see where you don't gain a lot by doing it under the scope. Doing it in open air makes things a lot simpler. Thanks again.

Archie Woodworth · Aug 27, 2017

Brass punch...mine is slightly "doomed" and as Im seating the wire in to the channel, I slide it along (the doomed - mushroomed head seems to allow me to glide it along as the wire is driven down. YMMV.

John B. · Aug 27, 2017

pmace said:
Thanks John. As always your tips are spot on. I am going to try both of these. I like the idea of using a sharpened screwdriver to manipulate and cut the wire. I can see where you don't gain a lot by doing it under the scope. Doing it in open air makes things a lot simpler. Thanks again.

Thanks pmace,
If you hold the punch slanted back about 15-20 degrees from "the line of march" you will seat the wire and also get the maximum amount of "stretch" out of it.
To see the savings, after you start a long border mark the wire at the far end with a permanent marker and see the savings.

jerrywh · Aug 27, 2017

I don't use hammers under the scope. Try using a flat piece of steel bar about 1" wide and 1/4" thick. It will give you a lot more room to work without hitting the scope with the hammers. Also when seating an inlay I tilt my vise away from me. It is not necessary to keep the work straight under the scope when seating wire or any inlay. You can see a lot better if you tilt the work away from you and it will give you more room, Then your fingers will not be in the line of sight.

pmace · Aug 27, 2017

I've tried not using the scope to set the wire and I just can't see well enough, even with an optivisor, to do it. Using a flat bar for a hammer sounds interesting. Tilting the ball will help as long as I can still see where I'm going. The ring light should take the occasional whack from the back of the hammer but the objective lens worries me. I need to get some sort of guard or something so that doesn't get broken. If I can get my Lindsay classic to play right that would certainly help.

John B. · Aug 28, 2017

pmace,
Sorry for your problem. I'm lucky and at 86 years old I still undercut and inlay with H&C and an Optivisor.
I sometimes use the scope when cutting the inlay channel.
Your Lindsay classic should work fine, especially if it is a foot control.
I've heard that the hand control also works but has a bit of a learning curve.
If you have the funds available you might find a .3 objective lens gives you the magnification and also the hand room you need.
I'm sure you will find the right combination of tools and equipment that gets the job done for you.
Try Jerry's flat steel block under the scope. I use one for certain purposes. You will find a combo that works for YOU.
You can also make a scope light/lens protector out of a pie plate and a sheet of heavy clear plastic.

pmace · Aug 28, 2017

Thanks John. Working under the scope is a pain for some operations but being able to see what you are doing is worth it. My next project is a brass punch for the Lindsay. I have the Palm Control so it's not as convenient for vertical operations like stippling, etc. but it works ok. I'm going to try rolling the ball off-axis and see how that works to get my hand out of the way.
Inlay is turning out to be kind of enjoyable. I was scared of it at first but it's not too bad. Fussy, but not scary. It'll be a while before I venture beyond copper wire though.
As always, thanks for the advise.

Inlay Punches

Elite Cafe Member

Lifetime Pledge Member

Elite Cafe Member

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Elite Cafe Member

Lifetime Pledge Member

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Elite Cafe Member

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Elite Cafe Member

Elite Cafe Member

Elite Cafe Member

Lifetime Pledge Member

Elite Cafe Member

Elite Cafe Member

Lifetime Pledge Member

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Elite Cafe Member

Lifetime Pledge Member

Elite Cafe Member

Sponsors