Question: Vintage Vise Pins.

skylerchubak · Aug 7, 2017

Hi everyone, I'm really new to engraving, meaning I haven't done it at all yet. I've just done research and am in the slowly buying tools stage until I have what I need. I'll get there...
Anyways, I recently got a victor engraving vise on ebay. It's really exciting and beautiful and I can't wait to use it, however I don't have attachment pins that fit it.
I was going back and forth between looking on ebay for old ones that might fit it, or buying a new pin attachment set from GRS or a modern fabricator. Then I came across another vise on ebay, by the same company (A.D Muehlmatt) with pins included, I got this one as well as I got it for a good enough price (about how much I would buy a modern set of pins for) and figured I could interchange the pins. Even though it has a complete pin set and is made by the same company the pins don't fit. It's kind of funny and kind of a bummer. I did't buy newer pins because I didn't know if they would fit the old vise, but the old pins turned out to not either.
The holes in the first vise I got, the Victor is smaller than the second Vise, which is a Rexcino. Maybe that doesn't matter as the top part that holds the pins could be made by a different company? I haven't tried taking of that part on the Rexcino as it is screwed in fairly well, and I'd rather just have those parts permanently attached.
I realize this is a basic questions for a lot of people, and maybe down the road I'll wonder why I asked it. I also realize some of you may wonder why I didn't just get a new vise, but I guess I decided to start with this and I'm not sure what makes sense.
Wondering how to find pins that will fit the first vise, or what you may do in this situation. I have photos as well, but I'm not sure how to post them. I will if it becomes apparent after I do post this.

Thanks
-Skyler Chubak

If the photos work the Rexcino is the one with the leather donut base.

mdengraver · Aug 7, 2017

You need to find out what the inside dimension of the holes are either with a caliper or doing a rubbing with paper on the holes with a pencil, or perhaps by googling the model of the vise or showing on the cafe a pic of the vise. Many knowledgeable people on the forum may be able to identify the vise and advise you how to proceed!

skylerchubak · Aug 7, 2017

Here they are, I couldn't get it to work the first time. The first is the second vise I got, the Rexino with the larger holes. The Pins are attached that fit it, and the last photo is the first vise I got, the Victor, with the smaller holes. Thanks.

skylerchubak · Aug 7, 2017

dogcatcher · Aug 7, 2017

Get a set of drill bits and one by one check to see what size the holes are. Then you can find the right size pins.

DKanger · Aug 7, 2017

Chances are that the holes may not be fractional, in which case you will also need number and letter drills. Once you find out the drill size, you can buy a piece of drill rod in that size from McMaster Carr and make your own pins. I bought a used one several years ago and found the holes had grunge in them. I ended up turning the drill bit by hand to clean it out as there was a lot of stuff packed in the bottom of the holes. Once cleaned, I found that the next size drill bit was the actual diameter of the holes. If you don't have a complete set of bits, a trip to a local machine shop is in order. They should be able to tell you the size without a lot of expense.

skylerchubak · Aug 7, 2017

Thank you so much. Seeing these responses, it is seeming like a pretty dumb question, But also I wouldn't have figured that out probably. I'll figure out the size with some bits and go from there. Thanks again for the advise!

monk · Aug 7, 2017

i have lost more pins than is allowed by law. i soon learned to buy common nails a bit oversized. chuck them in a lathe or electric drill. use a file to reduce them till a smooth fit happens then cut to length. i cut pins to suit the various thickness of the work i commonly work on. this way, the pins don't protrude and get in the way of the graver.
if you get serious about engraving, and i hope you do, you should prepare to improvize on the fly. without such, one experiences many delays. delays are frustrating, and costly. btw: welcome to the forum and best of luck to you !

dlilazteca · Aug 8, 2017

If you just looking for Pins get some round stock after you figure out the size with a drill bits and just cut them to length

MoldyJim · Aug 8, 2017

Or just drill out the vise holes to fit the pin set for the second vise.
Assuming the jaws aren't too hard.
If they are too hard, make a new set of jaws from Mild steel with holes sized for the same pins.

John B. · Aug 8, 2017

MoldyJim said:
Or just drill out the vise holes to fit the pin set for the second vise.
Assuming the jaws aren't too hard.
If they are too hard, make a new set of jaws from Mild steel with holes sized for the same pins.

Easy to re-drill the holes to fit the larger pins.
If the the auxiliary pin jaws are hardened ( I doubt it) just anneal them by heating them to red hot and slow cool by burying them in warm sand or crushed charcoal.

Roger Bleile · Aug 8, 2017

Possibly a little off subject but, I often read responses to beginners that go something like: "Get a bla, bla, bla and chuck it into your lathe and turn it down to...then go over to your milling machine and bla, bla, bla, then use your drill press to... before you take it to the surface grinder..."

My guess is that if most of these beginners are anything like I was 40 years ago, they don't have a machine shop in their basement.

Regarding the pins, I have four blocks (Muhlmatt, Vigor, LeTerneau, and GRS) and most of my pins fit in all of the vises except for the large pins.

skylerchubak · Aug 8, 2017

All of these responses make sense. I haven't really done any machining so I wasn't sure what made sense. I did just get a drill press so I could make the one vises holes bigger, but I also think just getting some round stock and cutting it to length.
Thanks a bunch for all the responses.

Southern Custom · Aug 8, 2017

The pin sets for that Vigor show up pretty often on ebay. There's also a used jewelers tool Facebook page that may come in handy. Honestly the only accessories I use is the pins for is messing with practice plates if I'm working out a design or lettering. The rest of the time I use the main jaws or a block with the piece fixed to it and then clamped into the vise. Pins can be made from any old stock you have laying around.
One more word of advise. The Victor is a fine engraving block. It will serve you well. But, if it gets sticky be sure that you don't use oil or grease on the bearing surfaces. They are meant to by run dry. Separate the halves and clean them. I suppose a dry lubricant could be used but I've never found this to be necessary.
If you use grease or oil, it will spin beautifully for a week, then it will start to attract dirt and the whole thing will gum up and become sticky.
Good luck with it.

MoldyJim · Aug 8, 2017

Good point Roger, thanks for reminding me.

But,
I would expect anyone serious enough to want to do engraving could run a drill press.
Even a hand drill could ream the holes a few sizes good enough for govt' work if they aren't hardened.
Part of the process of what we do is being creative with tools.

A set of nice hard maple jaws could be made from scratch pretty easily with hand tools.

You are right though, it is easy to give advice from experience that some others might not have.

This one is pretty easy to do though.
Your local metal supply could cut a chunk of 2-3" round stock to thickness, ask nicely and they might cut it in half crosswise.
If not, it is a good time to learn how to use a hacksaw.
Now you have two jaw blanks, (you could even make 6" diameter jaws if you wanted) layout for the mounting screws/pin holes and drill.
(and countersink to break the edges.)

The only power tool you would need is a drill press for this.

Actually I may just make a 6" set just to have one around sometime.

Andrew Biggs · Aug 8, 2017

My advise is to not worry about it. The vise accessories you are looking at are all but a waste of time and money..................There are other vise holding accessories that are much more worthwhile like ring holders etc. But that is further down the track.

The only thing that is useful are the pins and even they are limited to clamping square/rectangular flat practice plates.

If you want pins...........Measure the hole and go down to whatever store sells tube steel and buy the appropriate size rod to fit. Cut them to whatever length you need. You may have to file the pins a bit to get them to fit the holes but you only need 4 of them. Job done. They don't have to be pretty, they just need to be snug.

Or an easier way is to make a hard wooden T style block and hot glue your steel plate onto it.

Cheers
Andrew

Mike_Morgan · Aug 8, 2017

I don't actually recall the last time I used any of the pins and gadgets from my vise!

skylerchubak · Aug 10, 2017

Thanks again for all the feedback. I'm new to a forum so I'm kind of just responding to everybody. Everyone is offering good advice. It is true that I don't know how to operate a drill press, but I also feel like I need to learn how to use one and will figure it out. It seems like there's a consensus that the pins aren't as important as they seem, so I guess I'll be able to clamp most things without them.
Also thanks for telling me these things should be used without grease! The first one I got the person drowned it in so much grease, more than anything I've ever used. I kind of figured it needed it but wasn't sure. The second vise had no grease at all, but the bearing had kind of fallen out. I think I got it back in right, it's spinning around so I figured it will do the job. I'll have to clean out the first one. I was worried it would get dirty but wasn't sure if it needed it.
Thanks again.

gcleaker · Aug 10, 2017

monk said:
i have lost more pins than is allowed by law. i soon learned to buy common nails a bit oversized. chuck them in a lathe or electric drill. use a file to reduce them till a smooth fit happens then cut to length. i cut pins to suit the various thickness of the work i commonly work on. this way, the pins don't protrude and get in the way of the graver.
if you get serious about engraving, and i hope you do, you should prepare to improvize on the fly. without such, one experiences many delays. delays are frustrating, and costly. btw: welcome to the forum and best of luck to you !

Why donâ€™t you take your vise to a machine shop, I am willing to bet that they can fix up in one stop. Do not buy hardened steal as you will want to file them, and cut to the correct length.
Some people dream of worthy accomplishment while other stay awake and do them.

Olegraver · Dec 4, 2018

My victor vise must use standard pins, because when I ordered a set of accessories they fit, didn't even think about how they might not, maybe I got lucky, I use the pins sometimes mostly. You may want to swap the grease out and clean it, did mine and its a bit smoother. here's a neat video of one being taken apart:

Question: Vintage Vise Pins.

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