Need Advice - Embossing Dies

J0B00

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Please excuse me if I have posted this in the wrong place...

I am a tintype photographer and I have been making small, traditional cases for my images for a few years now. In the 1860s, these cases had embossed foil mats and "preserver" frames on the interior, both as a decoration as well as to help shield the image inside from the elements.

I have been replicating a set of originals with a pair of cast resin dies that I made. They work ok, but the detail isn't as crisp, and the dies have a tendency to break which causes me to have to make a new set. Its a messy, elaborate process and I don't really have time for that anymore. In addition, I'd like to make some different sized cases, and finding originals to replicate in some of these sizes is not something that is easy, if at all possible, especially if I want to do a different size than was traditionally produced.

It would be amazing if I could have some new dies made, possibly with a new design so that these cased images are able to be differentiated from antiques. There have been times where modern tintype images have been passed off as antiques on auction sites, and being able to do a non-traditional sized image with a new embossed design would flag these as "new" out the gate.

I've attached a couple photos. This set is approximately 2"x2.5" in size. Is this possible for someone to make, and if so how much could I expect a project like this to cost?

9839ADBC-755C-4712-B107-0255E5BE70C7.jpg CaseInterior.jpg
 

peteb

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Check out polymer letter press plates. Try the site for BOXCAR PRESS for more info. You can design a black and white image on computer and they will make the reverse image on a variety of plates.
 

J0B00

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Thanks for the suggestion peteb!

Thats an interesting idea, but these stampings are multilevel (see photos). Wouldn't the polymer plates be flat? I know of some folks who do something like that for embossing paper (zinc letterpress dies from a 2D line art image), but I don't know if it'd produce what I need for my cases.
 

Roger Bleile

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JOBOO,

There are folks who participate on this forum who are die makers that can do your job. You just have to wait for one of them to see your thread. Be patient.
 

J0B00

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Great news, Roger!

I've been without for a long time, so I'm in no rush. I've got the email notifications turned on so I don't miss a reply.
 

John B.

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You might also look into 3-D printing to make dies.
Would be inexpensive enough to make various designs and sizes.
Also, duplicates would be quick and relevantly cheap.
 

Roger B

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You might also look into 3-D printing to make dies.
Would be inexpensive enough to make various designs and sizes.
Also, duplicates would be quick and relevantly cheap.

3D printing is a new option which would probably be more cost effective but as a lot of the printing is done in plastics would it be strong enough for dies? Perhaps the designs would be printed individually for each case.
 
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mitch

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I have been replicating a set of originals with a pair of cast resin dies that I made.

a couple thoughts- what are you using for molds? and how much have you experimented with other casting materials? this may be a job for a metal-filled epoxy (Devcon makes several aluminum & steel options) or possibly a low-melting-temp "cerro" type, bismuth based casting metal. if your production numbers are pretty low you may be able to solve the problem with better materials.
 

dave gibson

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I have a friend here in Nor CA that hand makes all sorts of custom dies and punches, you can find him on Facebook, his name is Cody Rutland.
 

John B.

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3D printing is a new option which would probably be more cost effective but as a lot of the printing is done in plastics would it be strong enough for dies? Perhaps the designs would be printed individually for each case.

Hi Roger.
As you know 3-D printing also uses plastics containing a high percentage of various metal powders in the matrix.
I think he will find that that dies made this way are quite suitable to produce fairly low production light duty pressings in reasonable quantity.
And once the original artwork is scanned into the machine, enlargements, reductions or just duplicate dies are easily and economically made.
 

Roger B

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Hi Roger.
As you know 3-D printing also uses plastics containing a high percentage of various metal powders in the matrix.
I think he will find that that dies made this way are quite suitable to produce fairly low production light duty pressings in reasonable quantity.
And once the original artwork is scanned into the machine, enlargements, reductions or just duplicate dies are easily and economically made.

G'day John,

I consider myself a bit of a dinosaur when it comes to things like 3D printing - you only have to blink and another advance has been made. That being said I will excuse myself from discussions regarding dies that have been made from technology any later than pantographs!! :thumbsup:

Take care,
Roger
 

J0B00

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a couple thoughts- what are you using for molds? and how much have you experimented with other casting materials? this may be a job for a metal-filled epoxy (Devcon makes several aluminum & steel options) or possibly a low-melting-temp "cerro" type, bismuth based casting metal. if your production numbers are pretty low you may be able to solve the problem with better materials.

Hi mitch,

I've spent so much money trying different casting materials...its really not the best way to do this, I don't think. I've been stamping .001 copper shim stock with the above results, but the originals were done with .002 brass, and nothing that I have tried has been able to make a good stamping in brass. In addition, the copper seems to begin wearing out the dies after about 15 pressings. It takes me awhile to remake the dies, and sometimes I have to make them a second time if the resin I settled on (Task 12 from Smooth-On) doesn't cure properly. It'd be great if I could get a female die cut, and then use resin for the male side. Even better if someone could cut both sides.

All that aside, I'm not comfortable making replicas. A lot of tintype photographers shoot images of civil war reenactors and some of them are very hard to differentiate from antiques. Add a replica of a period case like I'm doing, and an unsuspecting collector could think it was real. I'm mainly going to be making these for my own images, which are more contemporary, but I still don't want to limit myself in that regard. Someone might have an image that they'd like me to make a case for (for safe keeping or display) and I want to make sure, whether their image is an antique or not, that the case cannot be mistaken for an original.
 

J0B00

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I have a friend here in Nor CA that hand makes all sorts of custom dies and punches, you can find him on Facebook, his name is Cody Rutland.

Is that Rutland as in Buffalo Rutland? I spoke with him in a direct message in Instagram about the hooks on my cases, but he said they'd have to cast them and they don't have time for that...

Yes, I'd need a way to stamp out those hooks, too. Cutting them out with a jeweler's saw is getting old. Back in the day they were stamped out of .01 brass plate.
 

J0B00

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Hi Roger.
As you know 3-D printing also uses plastics containing a high percentage of various metal powders in the matrix.
I think he will find that that dies made this way are quite suitable to produce fairly low production light duty pressings in reasonable quantity.
And once the original artwork is scanned into the machine, enlargements, reductions or just duplicate dies are easily and economically made.

Do you know of someone specific I could talk to about the 3D printing?
 

Roger B

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Is that Rutland as in Buffalo Rutland? I spoke with him in a direct message in Instagram about the hooks on my cases, but he said they'd have to cast them and they don't have time for that...

Yes, I'd need a way to stamp out those hooks, too. Cutting them out with a jeweler's saw is getting old. Back in the day they were stamped out of .01 brass plate.

Not knowing exactly what 1/100th of an inch is (maybe .25mm) I reckon you would be able to punch those hooks out with a pancake die - you could arrange to have several on the same cutter.
 

gtsport

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Have you considered electrotyping? Perfect fidelity to your mold, no damage to the mold after each copy, you can add modifications to an original design, make a new mold and produce an old design with a modern addition to foil counterfeit use. I have been making electrotypes for several years so I know from wence I speak.

Joe Paonessa
 

silverchip

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You might check with Kevin Potter -Potter U.S.A.- He has an extensive collection of dies and sells impression dies regularly. It sounds like the material is not very substantial ,so it would be easy to use this type of impression die to get what you want.
 

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