Solder overflow

Pancho · Jun 10, 2017

Hello all, new to the forum and relatively new to the engraving world. Wasn't able to get the right combination of keywords to find what I was looking for in a search here or anywhere else online. If this is the wrong place for it please direct me elsewhere.
I have made a couple buckles, the first I left the steel bright so any solder overflow wasn't very noticeable and got lucky on the second one. Now I have had 2 more people ask me to make them buckles and I am having a devil of a time getting the solder to flow evenly under the overlay, either leaving voids or flowing out side of the overlays. I am looking for advice on either getting the correct amount of solder the first time or removing the overflow. I'm sure that this comes with time and experience but everything I've seen online is moreso ad flux solder and heat and not add flux, this much solder and heat.
Thank you in advance, Pancho

Eric Olson · Jun 10, 2017

You can "sweat solder" by melting solder on the back of your overlay first and then soldering the overlay to your buckle.
Pretty much keeps solder overflow to a minimum.

Pancho · Jun 10, 2017

That's what I have been doing. I'll post some pictures after a bit to try to show what I'm dealing with. I'm less worried about the voids than the overflow except when one of the ends doesn't get stuck down. I was told to try some blue wheels from rio which work but can't get into the tight corners.

Brian Marshall · Jun 10, 2017

No one can actually be of much help without being present to observe, watching you live online or seeing a posted video of your efforts.

If you are truly getting "overflow" you are very definitely using too much solder.

If you are getting voids, it is likely either temperature control, cleanliness, amount of of flux - a combination of any of the 3 - or trying to solder at inauspicious times.

Brian

Try consulting your Farmers Almanac, a local astrologer or practitioner of palmistry for advice as to the most opportune time for success...

mdengraver · Jun 10, 2017

You may want to sweat solder on a mesh stand and direct the solder underneath the mesh and keep moving the torch around to evenly distribute the heat and periodical moving the torch around from above. If your using hard solder you may want to try medium or easy solder. It flows easier. Also put whiteout in the areas you don't want the solder to flow and this may solve some of your overflow problems. And don't use too much solder for the sweat solder. A lot of little pieces well distributed as regularly as possible works better. If the solder is too thick pound it thinner or send through the rolling mill. A lot of times solder is thicker than it needs to be and people use too much solder.

Brian Marshall · Jun 10, 2017

Temperature control is term that encompasses not just the amount of heat, but takes into consideration thickness, placement and the direction that the heat is coming from.

Your setup, the torch you are using, the flame you set, the distance the torch is from the work, any jigs or fixtures you may use, the metals involved, the brand of flux, the alloy and melting temp of the solder are only a few of the variables. SEEING what you are doing will make for an almost instantaneous solution to someone with experience.

Brian

Roger B · Jun 11, 2017

I would second Eric's method however rather than just sweat soldering the solder on the back of the piece I would create a few divots in the back with a ball bur and fill those with the solder. Pickle and file flat before soldering.

Roger

Pancho · Jun 11, 2017

https://goo.gl/photos/XRnA3xtg5hVcyjEG7

Here's one of the buckles that I just finished, the overflow isn't too bad but it's mostly on the bottom side of the top overlay. I think I may not have been clear enough on what I was wanting to know yesterday. I'm more so wanting to know how to gauge how much solder I need for a given overlay.

Brian Marshall · Jun 11, 2017

Practice soldering down sawn out sheet overlays down onto a base plate.

Even just punched out discs of copper, brass or steel. 1/4" to 1/2" discs should be enough to start with. Tiny flat washers are cheap and easy to find.

The more you do it, the more you begin to be able to judge what the correct mount will be... being able to estimate just the right amount comes with doing it over and over and over...

Then move to to then larger, odd shapes, letters and castings. Practice is just that. Stay away from items you plan to sell... until you have mastered it.

Brian

Marrinan · Jun 12, 2017

I would get a little book called "The Complete Metalsmith" It will give the basic a wide variety of topics and is well worth the few dollars it costs. Fred

gcleaker · Jun 12, 2017

Since I have had a few problems myself in the past you might try going to Rio Grande and get their Rio stop-flow anti-flux liquid. Item # 504028 26.95 plus shipping. It sounds like just the ticket for your problem.
Skill comes from diligence.
:thumbsup:

Brian Marshall · Jun 12, 2017

You can make your own "anti-flux" by making a thin paste outta yellow ochre pigment or ordinary red jewelers rouge and alcohol...

In all my years of doing this, I have resorted to that no more than 3 times.

All 3 times were very special circumstances on pieces with more than a dozen parts and up to 4 or 5 temperature levels & colors of solder were used in very close proximity.

When you really truly have your torch flame/tips and ALL the other variables mastered/under control - it should rarely be necessary.

Brian

sparklemotion · Jun 12, 2017

White-out (liquid paper) also works as an anti-flux/solder block. I second the suggestion of doing more practice.

Watching videos may also be helpful as you try to gauge "how much is enough," both in terms of amount of solder, and amount/length of heat. Here's some videos on the topic by Youtube teachers that I trust.

Soham Harrison
Nancy Hamilton (she is weird, but wise)
Bruce Cheaney (not one of my usual sources, but I did like his demo about soldering multiple materials to steel)

In my experience, every single soldering problem I have ever had has been the result of a lack of patience. Successful soldering needs the correct use of: Fit, flux, and flame (and "cleanliness", which I put under fit). My joins fail when I don't take the time to prep the materials for a gap-free fit (solder won't fill gaps), or when I don't watch the flux (glassy is good), or when I go in too hot and heavy with the flame (risking melting), or I heat the wrong part (heat the largest part the most).

Pancho · Jun 12, 2017

Thanks for all the advice guys. I know there is no shorcut to experience but was hoping for a push in the right direction and I think I've got that.

Brian Marshall · Jun 12, 2017

If you choose to try the White-out liquid paper method, try and find the water based one. (Not easy to do - but it exists)

The standard one available at office suppliers puts off a small amount of a cyanide gas when heated.

Depending on the surface area you plan to protect, that might not be desirable.

I've seen people cover a 4"x5" buckle with the stuff - front and back. Probably not a good idea? Self induced migraine?

Brian

mdengraver · Jun 19, 2017

If you pre-melt your solder on one piece of metal before you sweat the two pics together you should be able to gauge how much more solder you might need, by seeing the kind of solder cov

erage you can anticipate.

Solder overflow

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