Help, please: help needed, want to learn how to make molds and cast 1911 grips in silver

GTJC460

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Your better off making sets of master models and send to a foundry that has huge equipment capable of safely handling the task
 

Dave London

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Yep working in a foundry is no fun, a long time ago I worked in the oldest steel mill in PA. 6 months was enough for me.
 

Chujybear

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carlos.. don't let them scare you off..
i've cast big things in my cetrifuge before... 17 ozt finished.. i forget.. 5-6 oz button.
if you go bigger than that, then you are in gravity pour territory, unless you set up a vacuum table.
you will have to get fancy with your oven, probably .. but we have done well with firebricks and gas..
 

airamp

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HI,
Well interesting thread...
I am doing lost wax casting on a large scale. 5x8 perf flasks, 20x20x20 kiln, (each flask holds 7 lbs of investment), Kiln holds 15 flasks, investment mixing system for pouring 28lbs of investment under vacuum, blast furnace with 8 lb crucibles, and a 4 chamber vacuum machine for pouring four flasks at a time. Burnout in one cycle is 28 hours.
I cast gold, silver, brass, bronze in this system no problems. (Yes it is very dangerous and not for the faint at heart). Some of the degas products can kill you if you breath them so there is breathing apparatus and safety measures that need to be in place..

That being said the easiest solution to this with minimum equipment is buy cuttlefish material, cut a mold in it for the scales and pour in the silver. Machine up the rest and engrave..
You can also use graphite mold (probably machine better) and/or go to a good machine shop and have them cnc machine out the graphite or cuttlefish.

Melt metal and pour into mold.. no sprues, treeing, wax, burnout
You can check out the molds with low melt metal (cirro metal melts at about 160F-260F)

AirAmp
 
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diandwill

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My two cents. Especially for 1911's, it seems that rolled and milled stock would be a more uniform product and could be shaped, with a file with the silver caught and refined, and then engraved. It would produce a more solid, less porous pair of grips, with less waste and, overall, faster. Even SAA grips can be laid out and sawed. then shaped prior to engraving.

Barring that, a press would give better, more consistent results, once you made the forming pieces.
 

tsterling

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How about checking into CNC mills and computer modeling? Recently, I've been finding that it's quicker, easier, cleaner and gives me a better product than the lost wax casting I've done in the past (disclaimer: once you get past the CNC learning curve...). I've also found that hand engraving techniques work exceptionally well to clean up milling marks and embellish after milling. I would think that 1911 grips would be an ideal product for CNC, since the basic parts would be pretty uniform, and you would probably be able to re-use many decorative elements as your business expands, shortening the modeling time.

Just a thought...
 

GTJC460

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I wasn't saying it can't be done. I'm saying what is involved in casting items of such scale is not a very practical way of doing this. The best way to get metal 1911 grips for engraving purposes is by forming sheet in a die and press. It can be done in a 20-25 ton press which is a bunch cheaper and easier to operate repeatedly than buying a vacuum, kiln, tongs, casting machine, flasks, mixer, etc...not to mention investment and metal.

I've spent the better part of the last 20 years casting jewelry from 1 dwt or less findings to massive trees with 100+ parts on them. I'm definitely not afraid to sling molten metal. It's just not a practical way of making the grips.

Airamp's setup is what is required to do the scale items you want. This isn't a cheap way to go. That's why I suggest farming the casting to a foundry capable of doing it. There's plenty of folks out there that are setup to do what you want.
 

jerrywh

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I would separate the process into three or four different operations. Pattern making, Mold making. Making waxes, Burnout and casting.
None of these are simple. You are asking someone to give up about a month of their time. Every object being cast has its own set of problems. An object such as a pistol grip has different problems that a trigger guard. The best thing you can do is to study it on your own and if you have problems then a person with more experience can advise you.
There are also two different types of investment processes. One is the ceramic shell process and the other is the investment flask process. They differ a lot. Basically the flask process is for small runs. A small run is less than a few hundred. The ceramic shell process is for mass production. What you want to learn is something that is generally taught in a trade school over a year or two period of time.
The scope of this is more than you might realize.
PS- Airramp knows what he is talking about. My operation is slightly larger than his although they are essentially identical. I mostly cast Bronze, Brass and Silver.
My burnout oven will do about 25 flasks at one time. Some of them are 6"x 18". I pour under vacuum. One good thing is the investment process will reproduce regular engraving very well. Not bolino but line engraving. I have had castings come out that had my finger prints on the casting that was left on the waxes.
I do silicone molds under pressure and heat. I am about to retire from casting and making guns.
 
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Dani Girl

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I haven't read every post in this thread but I can tell you I made a knife a few years ago with solid brass handles, which at the time was kind of cool... I had a whole handle I could engrave, but over time I have come to appreciate that balance makes a large part of the difference between something that functions as a knife and something that is truly beautiful, functional and we'll made piece of art. Looking back I would not do it again. There has been some wise advice and ideas suggested on here and I will be interested to see whose advice you end up going with and what the results are. Good luck.
 

McAhron

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I'm with tsterling. A small tapletop CNC is inexpensive and has multiple uses. Additionally you can use the mill to do all the hogging and then handengrave to finish.
 

Southern Custom

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Just got around to looking at your post Carlos. I've done a lot of silver casting and a lot of large scale casting. I would never attempt what you are thinking about doing. I say this with 30 years on the bench. If I was to do this I'd outsource it to one of two professionals. Either a CNC machinist,
Or a foundry. Possibly someone that could die strike or forge them. Much more solid and consistent product. I say this for a few reasons. Initial expense and learning curve would be a nightmare. Porosity can be an issue. Finally you need an absolute flat precision piece and then you'll need to develop some kind of jig for drilling the recessed screw pockets.
You can get all this with other less costly methods than casting. Hell, I wouldn't do it and I have all the equipment. I've been asked several times.
I do think it's s project worth pursuing. Keep in mind they'll be an expensive product. You'll have to build the production expense into the price. Let someone else absorb the equipment cost. Pay them for silver and labor and you can keep costs down.
Keep us posted on the route you take and if you do decide to cast (God help you) let us know how the heck it goes!
 

Southern Custom

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And one other thing. Cast silver will be soft compared to a forged product. If you intend to engrave them, you'll want the hardest stuff you can get. If not, as soon as the owner picks up the gun with a ring on his finger he'll start to mar the engraving and finish. Just some more to think about.
You don't do anything by half measures do you??
 

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