anybody price gold wire inlay by the inch?

mitch

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historically, i've just included that like anything else in a job and billed hourly, but i've got a project on the horizon that might involve a fair amount of gold border work. the client has requested a rough quote per inch, so he can estimate how much he wants.

i'll calculate something for my purposes, but seem to remember many, many years ago more guys saying that was standard practice and they charged $X.00/inch, but i don't really recall any specific dollar figures. does anybody still do it that way? if so, what's the current approximate going rate for 0.010"-0.015" width lines?

:tiphat:
 

zzcutter

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I would get an idea how much wire i was goinh to use length then I would weigh it add 15% and calculate how much it is given todays gold price then add 15% to that and then figure roughly what you going to have wrapped up in the time inlaying and there you go. If you wanted to make more of a mark up on you metals then increase your mark up
 

mitch

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Jon, i've been doing this stuff for over 35 years and have a pretty good idea of how to figure my own costs. i was just wondering out loud if many/any other engravers actually break out the gold line work in their quotes and if so, is there much in the way of a 'going rate per inch' these days in the trade. i'm also wondering if maybe i'm working too cheap and should start doing that way.
 

SamW

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Mitch, I have not seen anyone post such info lately. I seem to remember the numbers being in the $15 to $20 range per inch. Pretty good pay if you can get it for that size wire. That can add up to several hundred dollars on some projects.
 

Big-Un

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Mitch, I have not seen anyone post such info lately. I seem to remember the numbers being in the $15 to $20 range per inch. Pretty good pay if you can get it for that size wire. That can add up to several hundred dollars on some projects.

Sam, many years ago I heard it was $100 per inch. Seemed high then, probably so today.
 

mitch

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Sam, many years ago I heard it was $100 per inch. Seemed high then, probably so today.

i remember that same figure from at least 30 yrs ago, and thought it was BS. however, depending on the particulars (line width, design, hardness of steel, flat vs curved surface, etc.) i wouldn't be shocked at maybe $50-$75/inch these days.
 

Brian Hochstrat

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I just draw the design and quote a price. Not all inches are the same, too many variables to price an inch of inlay at one price or xx$'s for this scroll,etc.. If he/she is on a budget find out what it is and design accordingly. I know new customers can get cagey about that, like it's going to tip their hand or something, but I explain that if I have carte' blanche, I will design without constraint and that will exceed most modest budgets, so just be honest and I will do as much as I can for what you can afford. The other thing is if you start letting the customer dictate how much gold and where, you have lost control of the design. You are the artist, your name is on the engraving, keep control. If you want to lose motivation and create drudgery, let the customer get control of a design you will then have to engrave. I had to learn that the hard way. My 2 cents.
 

Weldon47

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I agree with Brian H. The difference being after arriving at an agreed upon budget I don't provide drawings for approval I just draw directly on the piece and begin engraving.

Sometime back I gave a prospective client a quote on gold line inlay & was "politely" informed that a FEGA Master would be doing the work at much less than my quote. What could I say....

WL
 

mitch

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I just draw the design and quote a price. Not all inches are the same, too many variables to price an inch of inlay at one price or xx$'s for this scroll,etc.. If he/she is on a budget find out what it is and design accordingly. I know new customers can get cagey about that, like it's going to tip their hand or something, but I explain that if I have carte' blanche, I will design without constraint and that will exceed most modest budgets, so just be honest and I will do as much as I can for what you can afford. The other thing is if you start letting the customer dictate how much gold and where, you have lost control of the design. You are the artist, your name is on the engraving, keep control. If you want to lose motivation and create drudgery, let the customer get control of a design you will then have to engrave. I had to learn that the hard way. My 2 cents.

that's my usual practice, but the upcoming project in question is one of those situations where some parts/areas/panels could be either left undone or bordered with a nice gold line and artistically it wouldn't make any difference to me. it comes down to if the client wants a bit more bling i thought maybe in this instance he could decide for himself based in part on what it'll cost. if the guy wants to spring for more yellow lines here & there i really don't care on this job. he won't have "control of the design", i'm just letting him be more specific about how much gold line he wants. it will look nice either way. i have no great emotional, artistic, aesthetic investment in the project- occasionally they're just meant to be decorative and make a happy customer, no mean feat sometimes.

one thing i've learned the hard way is that killing myself to make every design/project more innovative, spectacular, etc., than the last was not making me happy and too often the client couldn't appreciate the difference, [complained] about the cost, and surprisingly/depressingly few people really gave a ****. now if somebody just wants something pretty for a fair price, i'm more than happy to provide it. my 2 cents.
 

Brian Hochstrat

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one thing i've learned the hard way is that killing myself to make every design/project more innovative, spectacular, etc., than the last was not making me happy and too often the client couldn't appreciate the difference, [complained] about the cost, and surprisingly/depressingly few people really gave a ****. now if somebody just wants something pretty for a fair price, i'm more than happy to provide it. my 2 cents.

Sorry to hear that was your experience in the past, nice that you can now find fulfillment.
 

Christian DeCamillis

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Wow, How did this go from a simple question on a possible way to price inlay work to losing control of your design and artistry? I understand that there are variables involved in pricing inlay . I also think that pricing by the inch has validity when we are speaking about simple borders and such, which is what the initial question was. Not only would it make it easier to quote jobs but it could help to standardize , not fix , pricing for this trade.

I had a similar experience to Weldon at Fega some years ago when a prospective customer came to me and asked for an estimate to do some raised inlay animals.I had some examples there at the show. I gave him a quote and his response was astonishment. He commented that my quote was half of someone else at the show and he didn't understand why. It seemed the customer walked away from the whole thing. I would guess that the difference in pricing made his decision more difficult and he opted to just do-nothing.

My point is that pricing is difficult and if the guild wants to help promote engraving then there should be some sort of pricing system used to help all engravers get a fair price for there work. I realize that there are different levels etc.. I realize it's not an easy task and there will be arguing and all the rest but in the Jewelry trade there is the Geller pricing guide . Years ago I thought it was crazy but I know many who use it and it works well.

I am not talking about price fixing . That is illegal .I am refrain g to a guide that can help everyone estimate work fairly.

Chris
 

Weldon47

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Chris: you raise an interesting point that definitely deserves further discussion in its own thread!
WL
 

Sam

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Chris: you raise an interesting point that definitely deserves further discussion in its own thread!
WL

I agree. I got in on the tail end of this thread and I've only read the last few posts, but further pricing discussion in a separate thread is a very good idea.

The only thing I'll add is that there's additional value in reputation that's hard to put a price on, but a guide of some sort seems like it's needed.
 

diandwill

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David Geller has such a guide for jewelers. It is several hundred pages and several hundred dollars. I don't have it.

The prices cover all aspects of jewelry, including engraving (I've been told) and are generally higher than I charge. One real advantage is that when clientele see it in print, it is easier for them to accept!
 

Brian Marshall

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We used Gellers book when I had my jewelry store. Set it on the counter, and laid out the page that was applicable to the job the customer brought in.

Rarely had a discussion on price... Made me thousands in extra income every year.

Well worth the price - and I think well worth putting something similar together for hand engravers.

"One size does not fit all" - but it was amazing how much more income it generated.

As well as how much easier it was on both the customer and myself!


Brian


In fact, I think it is such a good idea that I may try my hand at putting one together? Will need a separate thread to get an idea of what engravers are currently charging across the country....
 
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DKanger

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I am not talking about price fixing . That is illegal .I am refrain g to a guide that can help everyone estimate work fairly.
The automotive repair industry has flat rate manuals published every year. It lists the hours a repair job would take by a journey mechanic using common tools. Then there is an hourly rate chart where you establish your price based on the hourly rate in your shop. If a mechanic is highly skilled or has special tools to do the job, then he benefits by being able to do the job faster. For example: he is able to do a 5 hour job in 3.5 hours, but he still charges the flat rate of 5 hours.

Brownells also publishes rates for gunsmiths giving a range of hours required to accomplish various operations. Clear back in the 1600's the English gunmaking guild published a price table that required all guild members to follow when doing various operations.

It would probably be a monumental task for an individual to publish such a work on a cost vs benefit scale. Flat rate guides for auto mechanics run around $300 per year, but obviously an engraving manual would not be subject to having new operations appear annually, so it would be valid for many years. But is there a market for such a manual? It would probably take someone like Roger who has worldwide contacts and could poll them to establish a baseline and then publish them.
 

bigfoot

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If you get a hold of Rio Grand that will give you the translation as gold is sold by the Troy ounce, they are also a great supplier as they sell at the spot price of the day


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Riflesmith

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At the recent FEGA convention I had a prospective client who wanted some deep relief engraving done, however, his budget didn't fit the work to be done as I would be do it. Thenprospective client, as I observed didn find a fellow engraver who would do the work at the clients budget. That's just the way it goes. The time consumed with relieving background can come to a goodly amount. I'd tether turn down a job than to donate my time and, you get what you pay for. JMHO
 

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