Question: Gold inlay without any raised teeth

SalihKara · Dec 29, 2016

Hi

I watched some videos and took a look at some photos,

I see that some engravers can inlay the gold even if there is no teeth on metal.

They just lower the area and stipple it, after that they just push the gold on it and it works.

How they do that ?

zzcutter · Dec 29, 2016

The stippling creates valleys and cavities which the gold can flow into which holds it in the cavity. I have been playing around with this method and have inlayed both gold and silver. I have found that the sharper the point the better this process works also i try to come in from all different angles.
I might also add that this method can also be used for line inlays. you want to angle the point where the wall of the cut meets the bottom of the valley. This basically creates the undercut needed as well as stippling the bottom of the recessed cut.
Good luck with this process and experiment with it till you found how it works before doing it on a good piece.

John B. · Dec 29, 2016

I would caution against using this system on any much used firearms such as target pistols and trap and sheet guns.
The constant recoil of firing the gun can reek havoc on the gold held in such minor keys.
It is no joy and very expensive to fix a returned gun where some inlay has broken or fallen out.
The gun needs disassembly and often requires re-bluing.
To say nothing of a disappointed client and a hit to your reputation as an engraver. And a black eye to the whole engraving profession.
A very high price to pay for a few minuets saved cutting corners (no pun intended) when anchoring an inlay.
My vote is to use belt and suspenders !

Brian Marshall · Dec 29, 2016

Belt and suspenders = redundancy. Redundancy = fail safe.

B.

SamW · Dec 29, 2016

And a snug fitting waist...I never leave things to chance knowing that chance will make it fall out!

I remember Frank Hendricks on several occasions talking about replacing inlays (not his) that had fallen out because the "anchor" for the gold was weak, but done fast I'm sure.

John B. · Dec 29, 2016

SamW said:
And a snug fitting waist...I never leave things to chance knowing that chance will make it fall out!

I remember Frank Hendricks on several occasions talking about replacing inlays (not his) that had fallen out because the "anchor" for the gold was weak, but done fast I'm sure.

Me too Sam.
I remember Frank calling me to complain about having to fix fallen out or broken inlays that others had failed to properly anchor.
And on some VERY high priced imported guns. It's a miserable job for anyone to have to do.

Dave London · Dec 29, 2016

Ok I will ask the heretic question, how do the production manufactures install gold inlays they must have some kind of glue . Or elves working over time

John B. · Dec 29, 2016

Dave London said:
Ok I will ask the heretic question, how do the production manufactures install gold inlays they must have some kind of glue . Or elves working over time

Dave.
Naturally I can't answer for all manufactures, I can tell you that FN/Browning used a very secure system during the late '40 and on wards.
Their engravers used a perimeter undercut and a complete 2 or usually 3 direction full coverage bur field.
Almost 100% of their inlays were gold or silver wire construction hammered and cold welded together.
And their inlays stayed in with heavy use in trap and skeet guns whether they were flush or raised. And withstood re-bluing.
Old time Winchester, S&W, Remington and other American manufactures inlays were well done and held up to heavy use.
I'm sure there was some variation in their methods. But you can bet there were no short cuts used.
A lot of the new stuff is not inlay but is plated. But some manufactures still employ Master or highly skilled engravers.
Colt still sends out guns for special treatment by some of the current FEGA and other Master engravers and you can be sure that things are done properly.
It makes no sense to do unsecured inlays. It's just shooting yourself in the foot.

Dave London · Dec 29, 2016

Thanks Mr John

zzcutter · Dec 30, 2016

Well, I am going to push the envelope with this and will be doing it on a Win SX1 semi auto of mine that I will shoot for sporting. I did a practice plate and left the kids use as a hockey puck for a week and silver bird stayed in and I could not even pick it out. I think most guns will be safe with this process,
I remember talking to Lynton McKenzie about inlaying and Him telling me that gold does not need a lot to hold it in a cavity and that we do a lot of over kill with prepping the cavity to hold the gold, and said this was done to secure our reputation more then hold the inlay in. That statement has always stayed with me when I am undercutting the crap out of the cavity that is going to be inlayed. So I think this is an interesting process and don't think that it is new, just not practiced that much or admitted too.
Anyway, I will keep you posted and let everybody who is interested how it works on my project. ZZ

SamW · Dec 30, 2016

Maybe you need to feed the kids more Wheaties!!

John B. · Dec 30, 2016

To Jon Novak,
Hi Jon,
I ask you in all sincerity what is your purpose in minimizing the security of your inlays when you obviously know the difference?
Is it to save two or three minuets of your time?
Are you not charging enough for inlays to spend this little bit of time?
If I may be allowed an analogy.
You may have driven many 100,000 or more miles safely.
Does that mean you don't need to spend the couple of minuets it takes to buckle up your kids or grand kids in your car.?
Are you planning to take out the unused and maybe unneeded air bags?
I see a beautiful airplane on your posts. Don't know if you are a pilot. Planes are pretty safe when used properly.
But would you feel safe flying with someone who didn't take the little extra time for a pre-flight check just because they had never had a problem?
Too late to wish they did when the engine quits because of water in the fuel.
Too late to wish when the inlay falls out for lack of a little extra prep. and care.
Maybe we just have to agree to disagree.
Wishing you and all the Cafe members happy engraving in the New Year.

John B. · Dec 30, 2016

Jon, a PS,
My pre-flight check on inlay is to cover them with clear shipping tape and burnish it down.
Hold on to the loose end and lift up sharply.
If the inlay stays in you can bet there is "No water in the fuel"

Ed Westerly · Dec 30, 2016

I will use a pointed tool to inlay really small bits of gold, but otherwise I'm with John B., belt and suspenders all the way!!!

silverchip · Dec 30, 2016

John never gave us a choice in school,there is only one way to do it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brian Marshall · Dec 30, 2016

You can lead a horse to water...

B.

There are TRIPLE redundancies on airliners. Wonder why they are safer than cars?

zzcutter · Dec 30, 2016

You guys need to live on the WILD SIDE

Brian Marshall · Dec 30, 2016

The majority of my friends who lived that way, are no longer here... and most of them could have been.

There are times when tried and true + common sense should prevail.

But in this particular case, no one will actually die if a little piece of gold or silver falls off!

Right away, or down the road a piece.

Just keep that in mind and have at it.

B.

zzcutter · Dec 30, 2016

Exactly, and well said

jerrywh · Dec 30, 2016

I don't know why anybody would want to do it that way. I have tried it. It will hold but not very well. It is just as fast to cut single teeth as it is to stipple. Cross hatching doesn't take long either but I prefer single teeth.

Question: Gold inlay without any raised teeth

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