Speed Drawing of Some Practice Scrollwork

Andy · Dec 28, 2016

Sam, I have the 12.9" version with 128GB ram.
I am absolutely loving it. Drawing on it is a dream for me once I sorted out some technical hurdles like what resolutions to work with and how to best utilize and modify the stock brushes and tools that the app provides. Being able to work with layers and scaling and such makes things so much better than paper and pencil. The only true drawback is the tactical feedback of drawing on a slick surface verses the rough texture of paper. It could be a huge drawback for some but many artists are going completely digital for the many reasons I have stated. Plus you can have your entire portfolio in your tablet.
As far as the scrollwork goes, I almost didn't finish it because it was such a huge design and I was just blowing through it. Most of the leaf designs are rather boring and some are downright crappy but I was in a hurry and didn't care. It was mostly an exercise for me to try a complicated intertwined design. If I had to do it over I would definitely take the time to fix a lot of problems with it. I could never imagine how long it would take to cut a design this big in steel. Kudos to you Sam. I know you have done some this size based on the photos you share.
By the way I was able to buy my IPad reconditioned on Ebay for $590. Turns out to be a steal at that price.

Jonathans · Dec 28, 2016

Wow. The universe here has come a long way in just a month!

Mike_Morgan · Dec 28, 2016

Jonathans said:
Wow. The universe here has come a long way in just a month!

I was wondering when you were going to pop in with an accusation of hypocrisy... (as an undertone, of course)... I think what you fail to realize is that the folks discussing computer graphics are old pros at pencil and paper, and they are applying the well-engrained theory to a new digital medium.

There's still no substitute for pencil and paper for developing the baseline skills that can be later applied to advanced media.

Sam · Dec 29, 2016

Jonathans said:
Wow. The universe here has come a long way in just a month!

Jonathan: Apparently you can't see the difference between what you were attempting to draw digitally and what Andy has done. You were copying and pasting the same bad design over and over and getting nowhere in the process.

Sam · Dec 29, 2016

Andy: While I've not done this on an iPad, here's a potential workflow I could see: Shoot a photo of a knife, gun part, etc with the iPad's camera. Import into the drawing app and trace the outline on a new layer. Turn off/delete the photo layer. Create another layer to draw scrolls on, etc.

I'm not sure what the next step would be in order to transfer the design to the part, plus you run the risk of parallax with the camera's 28mm wide angle lens and your outline dimensions being slightly different from the actual part.

As for the tactile feel, I agree that the glossy screen surface is kind of weird, but I think I could get used to it with practice. This is where the Wacom Cintiq's slightly textured surface is better. I wonder if there's a textured overlay you could put on the iPad?

When I used my student's iPad Pro I was having problems with the heel of my hand making lines in the drawing where it was resting on the surface. Have you found a way to overcome this?

Last question: Are you drawing and/or outputting in vector or raster?

John B. · Dec 29, 2016

Sam,
Not trying to make more work for you BUT:................

I can see a great value in you and Andy or you and someone putting on a class at GRS or elsewhere in "Computer Aided Design for Engravers."
Maybe a tag team effort like Rex and Sandy do for the complete gun engraving class. Bringing some of we Luddites into the 21st Century.

Jonathans · Dec 29, 2016

Sam, I recognize my lack of talent at this stage and in no way am comparing mine with Andy's.
Copy/pasting poor scrolls was stupid on my part, but it didn't eliminate the fact that working with levels for the initial drawing over a photo, or for different stages of a design in progress, is just a digital expression of pencil and tracing paper on a light box. Since I really respect the level of talent represented on this forum I'll do whatever it takes to be able to participate.
Happy New Year everyone!

dlilazteca · Dec 29, 2016

Sam, what i do is a smoke pull of the item, i have tried several scanning programs and found one that does not automatically resize the scan, i import the scan, make it semi translucent make a new layer and draw. Like mentioned before being able to resize an image larger or smaller to draw and it's a real Plus.

Once drawn i remove the smoke layer and then transfer,(your choice of transfer inserted here, acetone, parchment paper, clear transparency)

GunEngraver.com Custom Guns Knives and More PAYMENT PLANS Available

dlilazteca · Dec 29, 2016

Sorry for the double entry

vilts · Dec 29, 2016

I've been using the large iPad Pro for pretty much all of my drawing since it came out. Very very nice indeed, totally can recommend. Before that I had Cintiq, and before that Surface Pro. Strangely enough, iPad pro is the best of the bunch. Cintiq was small, attached with all the cables to the computer (but drawing was nice and good), Surface Pro had real trouble with slow drawing, didn't draw straight lines due to its digitizer problems.

My favourite program on iPad is also Procreate, only downside is that it doesn't have mirroring capability (Sketchbook pro is the only program that has it, but it is otherwise clunky). Otherwise very nice, fast, smooth, lots of brushes etc. Though, I use 99% of the time only one inking brush and an eraser... I've downloaded and bought pretty much all programs that are available, Procreate is still the best.

In addition to Andy's, I can also add one drawing video that was for my S&W engraving: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIirXwJaA9c

My usual workflow is simple. Engrave the contours (it item will have them), scan the smoke pull of the contours and upload it to iCloud or Dropbox, this will upload the scan automatically to iPad. Draw the design in Procreate layers and export as PSD again to iCloud or Dropbox. Continue from computer with photoshop to scale, print and transfer the design. (Carlos just managed to write the same thing before me

)

As Sam suggested, same flow works with photos. Although I shoot photos of items with proper long macro lens to get rid of any distortions, iPad camera is crap. Rest is the same, photo to iCloud, to iPad and later design back again.

Andy said:
The only true drawback is the tactical feedback of drawing on a slick surface verses the rough texture of paper. It could be a huge drawback for some but many artists are going completely digital for the many reasons I have stated. Plus you can have your entire portfolio in your tablet.

Andy, get the matte screen protector, that will help a lot with the feedback. I bought a random one from ebay and now it feels exactly like Cintiq with its matte screen. Youtube has a lot of reviews and recommendations for these. Amazon had even one that wasn't film, but rather a very thin glass you could glue on the screen. This is the one that was highly recommended, but unfortunately they didn't ship to Estonia, so I got that one instead. Works perfectly.

Brian Hochstrat · Dec 29, 2016

I have the same setup as Andy, but the one thing I did, was to add a screen protector, it gave a bit more feel to the face of the ipad, before it felt pretty slick, with the covering it has a more paper like feel. All my real design work gets done on my imac and tablet, but for portable doodling the ipad works great

Sam · Dec 29, 2016

Thanks Carlos. Yes a smoke pull is a solution to eliminate lens distortion. You'd laugh at what I used to do back in the day. I would place a sheet of acetate over a knife bolster and scratch-trace it and rub graphite in it to see the line, then put tracing paper over that to do a layout. I did quite a number of jobs that way and still have the old tracings and drawings.

Vilts: I very much enjoyed your and Andy's videos with the iPad. I hope others will note the slight corrections and adjustments you guys make as the design progresses. This is extremely important for beginners to see these being made.

And Brian H. confirms that overlay can improve the feel of the glossy screen. Following Andy's advice I found a refurb iPad and will give this a go!

Sam · Dec 29, 2016

John B. said:
Sam,
Not trying to make more work for you BUT:................
I can see a great value in you and Andy or you and someone putting on a class at GRS or elsewhere in "Computer Aided Design for Engravers."
Maybe a tag team effort like Rex and Sandy do for the complete gun engraving class. Bringing some of we Luddites into the 21st Century.

That's not a bad idea, John. I'm still a hardcore pencil guy but there are times when the computer is a godsend. I should kick this idea around with GRS and thank you for the suggestion!

Sam · Dec 29, 2016

And referring to Jonathan earlier, if you're using a pencil or stylus on a digital drawing system like Andy and Vilts (and I) have done then I think that's totally acceptable. It's definitely not faster and better for most of what I do, but it has its place.

I'm on the fence about using the spiral tool in Corel or Illustrator. Yes you can create a perfect spiral with it, but you're not learning to draw that spiral by hand, and I truly believe there's a deep connection with scrollwork you will never experience until you can. I'm not bragging, but I can cut a nearly perfect scroll spiral without a layout, and I'm certain others can do it as well. It's hard to explain, but I can feel it as it progresses and it turns out right nearly every time. This comes from drawing thousands of them, and I'm afraid if I'd used a computer and spiral tool and/or did it with a mouse, I would be lacking that feel that also translates to every other cut I make. That's my story and I'm sticking to it

PÃ¤r BjÃ¶rkman · Dec 30, 2016

Old man

I've drawn scrolling design with paper and pencil in 15-20 years. Although I am an old man, I was so inspired by this thread so I went to the nearest town and bought an iPad PRO with its large screen and a AppelPencil and the app Procreator. Now I have two days trying to learn to use the technology and are surprised at how easy and educational, it is structured. Absolutely incredible, an old man like me can indeed after 2 days to actually use this modern technology, I also have to admit that it is very fun. This technique of using different layers I begin to understand the tremendous opportunities it opens.

Sam · Dec 30, 2016

PÃ¤r BjÃ¶rkman said:
I've drawn scrolling design with paper and pencil in 15-20 years. Although I am an old man, I was so inspired by this thread so I went to the nearest town and bought an iPad PRO with its large screen and a AppelPencil and the app Procreator. Now I have two days trying to learn to use the technology and are surprised at how easy and educational, it is structured. Absolutely incredible, an old man like me can indeed after 2 days to actually use this modern technology, I also have to admit that it is very fun. This technique of using different layers I begin to understand the tremendous opportunities it opens.

Mine arrives soon PÃ¤r, and I'm anxious to see how it compares to the Wacom Cintiq for drawing directly on the screen. Andy should get some sales commissions for starting this thread!

I also learned that with Astropad app you're essentially mirroring your computer display so you can work directly in Photoshop and possibly Illustrator.

Sam · Dec 30, 2016

I don't know how this thread got locked. Happens once in awhile. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Jonathans · Dec 31, 2016

sam said:
And referring to Jonathan earlier, if you're using a pencil or stylus on a digital drawing system like Andy and Vilts (and I) have done then I think that's totally acceptable. It's definitely not faster and better for most of what I do, but it has its place.

I'm on the fence about using the spiral tool in Corel or Illustrator. Yes you can create a perfect spiral with it, but you're not learning to draw that spiral by hand, and I truly believe there's a deep connection with scrollwork you will never experience until you can. I'm not bragging, but I can cut a nearly perfect scroll spiral without a layout, and I'm certain others can do it as well. It's hard to explain, but I can feel it as it progresses and it turns out right nearly every time. This comes from drawing thousands of them, and I'm afraid if I'd used a computer and spiral tool and/or did it with a mouse, I would be lacking that feel that also translates to every other cut I make. That's my story and I'm sticking to it

Thanks for that Sam. I have never used a spiral tool, and all my drawing is by hand (that's why they looked so poor!). The input I have received here has definitely helped to train my own eye to see what I couldn't before. BTW, I have been using the iPad Pro as well with Adobe Illustrator Draw. I will try out Procreate now as I was very impressed with the fineness of the shading lines Andy was able to get.

Sam · Dec 31, 2016

Here's my first iPad attempt.

PÃ¤r BjÃ¶rkman · Dec 31, 2016

Video

Thank you Sam, Its looks much better than my first try. Sam, I hope you soon publishes your first video in this forum.

Speed Drawing of Some Practice Scrollwork

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