Montana Silversmiths

John P. Anderson · Dec 9, 2016

http://www.ktvq.com/story/33942492/montana-made-montana-silversmiths

The Great Falls TV station KRTV had a nice little feature on Montana Silversmiths I thought was worth sharing.

John

mdengraver · Dec 9, 2016

That was great. Thanks!

diandwill · Dec 9, 2016

The problem I have with Montana Silversmiths is that almost all the western stores carry their product, but the product they carry are the inexpensive, cast reproduction buckles, earrings and pendants. Most people don't understand that the $150 buckle they bought is a cast reproduction and plated buckle, so they wonder why MY buckles cost 3-4 times as much.

They still do make high end, hand crafted buckles, but these run into the thousands, and most people don't know or just don't care. What they used to be is great, what they are now...not so much!

AliAtiyabi · Dec 9, 2016

An interesting and nice idea.

Brian Marshall · Dec 9, 2016

Yup, "what they used to be"...

B.

Roger Bleile · Dec 9, 2016

Does anyone on this forum work for Montana Silversmiths? I have admired the scrollwork on some of their buckles and jewelry.

Brian Marshall · Dec 9, 2016

There is at least one engraver who does their high end work on this forum. I will let him decide when/if to jump in.

The largest percentage of Montana products that I see in Western stores these days are die struck, mass produced and lower end...

B.

Roger Bleile · Dec 9, 2016

Brian,

Their work may be die struck but someone had to engrave the die. Die struck are true to the work that the engraver put into the die, as you know. Most buckles I see are casings.

Brian Marshall · Dec 9, 2016

The die work is made from actual original engravings. It can also be used to make wax models for cast reproductions.

John Freestone was the first to come up with the method while still a partner in Gist Engravers.

I believe it is considered a trade secret among those who do this work.

Not something that will likely be discussed on a forum...? But maybe things have or are changing?

B.

silverchip · Dec 9, 2016

Electroform dies can be made from original engravings. The Nickel cobalt that makes up the die wears out after some time,but with the combination of EDM they are able to produce hard steel dies that last for years. I have tinkered with some of this,and know there are several ways to reproduce the engraving to the point that it is extremely difficult to discern one from the other.You can do a lot with a big coining press. Even so there is an entire process that goes into designing and producing quality work that makes all this possible. It all starts with a pencil but quickly goes high tech. I have a lot of respect for their capabilities.

Marrinan · Dec 9, 2016

My family that still resides on the reservation and tribal trust land have done "Indian" silver work for years. I myself got into engraving to take my silverwork to a new level. Some of my family work in the guild crafts shop and sell in the museum store, to art shops , western stores and many other outlets. some work in a factory that only hire registered tribal members and they are just factory employees but the products are all marked as "Indian Made". A couple myself included have worked from home and gone in our own direction. You can buy Jeremiah Watt mass produced work from Tandy and Weaver Leather and I don't Know who else. It is a way of making a different living for your family. Nothing wrong about any of the things I have mentioned as long as honesty is is included. Fred

tdelewis · Dec 10, 2016

I have looked at the Montana Silversmith work and wondered, how can anyone do a buckle like that for under $100. Now I know. They do look great but with close inspection they didn't look like a real clean bright cut. It really makes it difficult to sell good hand cut buckles if people don't know the difference and many don't.

Brian Marshall · Dec 10, 2016

It's all about educating your customers... and those who are not yet your customers.

Generally, those who still live in or around the "country", "cowboy" or ranching world know the difference.

Some of them can afford to be connoisseurs and those are the ones who keep the custom shops in business.

B.

diandwill · Dec 10, 2016

Brian Marshall said:
It's all about educating your customers... and those who are not yet your customers.

Generally, those who still live in or around the "country", "cowboy" or ranching world know the difference.

Some of them can afford to be connoisseurs and those are the ones who keep the custom shops in business.

B.

On a somewhat related note...I have just become aquanted with a one man saddle making shop here in my own little town. I have thought of making a set of saddle silver to offer for sale, in his store, in the hopes that someone having a custom saddle made would choose to use that or have a custom set made. As is typical, for me, I don't know what a set entails. My guess would be 4-6 conchos, a horn plate and cantle plate. Is that about right?

Thanks, Will

John P. Anderson · Dec 10, 2016

Many folks can't tell the difference between mass produced and hand engraved work. Especially from 10' away. Once they know the difference it may or may not be appreciated. So be it.

Not everyone can afford a handmade buckle.

Winning your first buckle at a youth rodeo is HUGE deal for a kid, I know. I could care less that it's a cheap german silver buckle with a crappy horse stamped from a wornout die. It was my first buckle won and not boughten. It's has machine done letters and says "Chuckwagon Days" "3rd Place Bareback" and it's one of my most prized possessions because of the memories. It's pre Montana Silversmith and it makes their die work looks really good in comparison.

John

diandwill · Dec 10, 2016

John P. Anderson said:
Many folks can't tell the difference between mass produced and hand engraved work. Especially from 10' away. Once they know the difference it may or may not be appreciated. So be it.

Not everyone can afford a handmade buckle.

Winning your first buckle at a youth rodeo is HUGE deal for a kid, I know. I could care less that it's a cheap german silver buckle with a crappy horse stamped from a wornout die. It was my first buckle won and not boughten. It's has machine done letters and says "Chuckwagon Days" "3rd Place Bareback" and it's one of my most prized possessions because of the memories. It's pre Montana Silversmith and it makes their die work looks really good in comparison.

John

I have thought of that too, making and donating buckles for local rodeos...but with all the categories and finish places, it is a daunting task and too much for me alone. I am considering just first place for a few events and/or the royalty. There are just too many options and I'm not sure how to narrow it down. Maybe one really nice buckle for overall champion, or a set of spurs.

Brian Marshall · Dec 10, 2016

Will,

Go sit down and talk to the saddlemaker...

He'll tell you what he uses on his style of work. Number & sizes of conchos, size of horn cap, measurements on the cantle plate, etc.

Some will will have silver on rigging "D"s or plates as well as stirrup bolts.

I have been out of it for almost 20 years now - so I don't know if show saddles still use corner plates?

B.

Brian Marshall · Dec 10, 2016

IF, you want to, go ahead and donate what you wish. Expect nothing in return.

Been there, done that. Never got a single order from doing it. Did see a few happy kids at junior events that won one.

And I learned early on - NEVER bid on buckles for events. That road is littered with pain. (and the bones of the silversmith/engravers who tried)

You cannot compete with the big guys. You will lose your $ss...

Brian

Montana Silversmiths

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