Help, please: Very new to hand engraving

Karlspinks · Nov 22, 2016

Around 12 months ago I decided to take up a new hobby of jewellery making. As my grandfather had the same hobby it gave me a head start with tools and advice. Since then I have gained basic knowledge in this field and have enjoyed my learning experience.

I have recently started to be more interested in engraving than in jewellery making. My grandad gave me loads of hand gravers (of which I could not work out how to sharpen correctly initially) and these interested me greatly.

A few books and many many helpful YouTube videos later, I'm a few steps down my journey of learning how to engrave.

So here is where I am at at the moment:
I have purchased:
A few lindsay engraver templates
Block vice
Optivisor
Foredom Hammer action micromotor (initially bought for my jewellery making but used also as a power assisted graver)

I have just taken the plunge and ordered a graversmith, 901 handpiece, and compressor. (has not arrived yet)
I also found a used meiji emt 2 on eBay - of which I may need to buy a stand for, unless I can make do with a diy one.

So here in lies my questions :
What else do I need? (currently just want to engrave practice plates to learn scrolls and lettering and see what happens from there)

I cannot take classes due to my work commitments, are there any decent training materials I should get like books or dvd's?

Oh and by the way hi, this is my first post I'm Karl from England

Ed Westerly · Nov 22, 2016

Sounds like you have the basics for beginning. I would suggest you spend a lot of time in the tips archive. There is a vast amount of knowledge there.

monk · Nov 22, 2016

i hope it just slipped your mind, you didn't mention drawing pads and pencils. just as important as the toys you have gathered up. i guess you should begin by drawing scroll spines ( spirals), as they are the foundation of nearly all serious design
once you have a decent spiral formed..you will have to cut it. most all store-bought gravers need sharpened. i'd suggest a 90 square, 15 heel, 45 face. have at it. you will likely be surprized-- it will be very easy, or very difficult to do first time around. this art demands practice, and lots of it. if this be a hobby, no real threat. if you want to engrave with the idea of earning money, then you need to slow down, take baby steps. i hope you stick with it, and i wish you luck in your endeavor.

Ron Spokovich · Nov 22, 2016

I saw no mention of sharpening equipment, other than the Lindsay templates, which will save you purchasing power equipment for such. It will just take a little time, sharpening by hand, and only two or three stones are needed. Otherwise, it sounds as if you are all tooled up!

dlilazteca · Nov 23, 2016

Seems like your goodnto go, what you really need to unlock your potential is finding someone you can visit locally.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

Karlspinks · Nov 23, 2016

dlilazteca said:
Seems like your goodnto go, what you really need to unlock your potential is finding someone you can visit locally.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

Yes this is something i certainly will consider. I have two main issues. One i have very little time to invest into this hobby as i am working full time, and i mean 6-7 days per week, and therefore difficult for me to enroll in any course. Holiday would need to be taken but i like to spend precious time with my wife and of course this takes priority. The second reason and perhaps i can be corrected here, is the lack of courses in England from my google searches.

Ron Spokovich said:
I saw no mention of sharpening equipment, other than the Lindsay templates, which will save you purchasing power equipment for such. It will just take a little time, sharpening by hand, and only two or three stones are needed. Otherwise, it sounds as if you are all tooled up!

i have eze lap diamond stones, ruby stones, whetstones, Arkansas stones all from my jewelry tool collection.

But i've found using a lapping disc mounted on my milling machine to shape the graver (using lindsay template) and then mirror polishing using Edenda discs ( another acquisition from my jewelry making ) gives me the best results.

Ed Westerly said:
Sounds like you have the basics for beginning. I would suggest you spend a lot of time in the tips archive. There is a vast amount of knowledge there.

Prior to my post and joining the forum i have frequented this section vigorously and will continue to do so. Most of my purchase decisions came via this site reading other threads and advice.

monk said:
i hope it just slipped your mind, you didn't mention drawing pads and pencils. just as important as the toys you have gathered up. i guess you should begin by drawing scroll spines ( spirals), as they are the foundation of nearly all serious design
once you have a decent spiral formed..you will have to cut it. most all store-bought gravers need sharpened. i'd suggest a 90 square, 15 heel, 45 face. have at it. you will likely be surprized-- it will be very easy, or very difficult to do first time around. this art demands practice, and lots of it. if this be a hobby, no real threat. if you want to engrave with the idea of earning money, then you need to slow down, take baby steps. i hope you stick with it, and i wish you luck in your endeavor.

Of course it did. i do not have a computer so my only method of outlines are self drawn. I do struggle with designs it must be said..... this for me so far is the most tricky aspect

i did see the Sam Alfano Dvd on how to draw scroll work, would anyone recommend that for me as a beginner?

monk · Nov 23, 2016

anything by sam is a worthwhile purchase. i'd suggest a book or two. one by lee griffiths, the other by shawn didyoung. both show an easily understood way to achieve good design using just a few simple lines to create most anything. when learning to design, i would avoid doing the more complex type of design. simply put, if you cant get a good understanding of elementary design, attempting the more complex will just go nowhere. i would suspect, in your case, time will be your greatest hurdle. even if an instructor came to your shop, time is a requisite part of this art.

don hicks · Nov 23, 2016

Don't overlook the book and engraving practice plates by Ron Smith. Available at GRS.
Cheers
Don

Karlspinks · Nov 24, 2016

don hicks said:
Don't overlook the book and engraving practice plates by Ron Smith. Available at GRS.
Cheers
Don

I cannot seem to find these anywhere online, i have even tried the grs Store.

monk said:
anything by sam is a worthwhile purchase. i'd suggest a book or two. one by lee griffiths, the other by shawn didyoung. both show an easily understood way to achieve good design using just a few simple lines to create most anything. when learning to design, i would avoid doing the more complex type of design. simply put, if you cant get a good understanding of elementary design, attempting the more complex will just go nowhere. i would suspect, in your case, time will be your greatest hurdle. even if an instructor came to your shop, time is a requisite part of this art.

DVD by sam has been ordered thanks, i can't seem to find any books on amazon uk by either Lee griffiths or shawn didyoung. Is there somewhere else i can find these?

i Will be spending all my sofa time drawing from now on, certainly my biggest hurdle is design work and drawing.

Dave London · Nov 24, 2016

Yep click the link on the right hand side of this page.

don hicks · Nov 25, 2016

Karlspinks said:
I cannot seem to find these anywhere online, i have even tried the grs Store.

Karlspinks;
Do a google search for "ron smith engraving" you should get a few hits on ron's engraving material.
Cheers
Don

Dani Girl · Nov 26, 2016

Welcome Karl.

We will all be keen I am sure to see your work posted up here on the forum as well and we can critique it and give you some helpful tips and pointers. Good to see another person picking up the art.

Also keen to see if the foredom handpiece actually can engrave like the other so please post pics of what you achieve with that. It might be great for wood carving. GRS sells some little wood carving chisels that fit the handpieces GRS sells. They're close to 3/32nd and are a squeezy fit into my lindsay handpiece. A quick sand would make them fit better.

(What I use every day I sit down if this helps) (My magnification of choice, mine is a microscope, using the scope I need a turntable under my vise, vise, magnetic leather pads between the jaws or a wooden block with thermoloc or a wooden block with something hot glued to it, very very rarely I use the GRS attachment kit for the vise but it's by no means essential. I use my starret dividers, a scribe, a unipin felt tip pen .1 or .05, sandpaper to finish the work pieces before cutting to 600 or 800 and RIO GRANDE sells polishing paper code 337301 which is nice to just wipe over your work when you're finished to de-bur. I use the Lindsay flat template and the 116 or similar v graver mostly. Note they'll only take 3/32nd shafts unless you go and modify it. My teacher cut into the threaded shaft on the back end so his GRS quick change collet would slip onto it and uses it backwards. I use my 1/2 inch diamond bench stones Lindsay sells daily and I also use a spyderco ceramic stone to polish the graver when I want to, which I ususally do. M42 is a good graver steel for regular use, HSS is good too in softer metals, the carbides are wonderful but just starting out you'll snap them a lot so work up to them. I use black oil paint or screen printing ink to blacken wiping on with a cotton bud and off with a tissue, I wouldn't knock using flat black rustoleum either which is a flat black enamel but i never got the hang of it. I use Sam Alfano's transfer wax which you can buy straight off him on his site along with his DVDs which are fantastic. Whenever I want to make a new graver I go to the diamond laps Lindsay sells and the mandrel he sells which are mounted in my drill press and grind it to shape, maintaining the gravers i just use bench stones.)

Make sure what your vise is resting on is rigid with no wobble and that what you're engraving is really well held down, you'll break less gravers and slip less.

A transfer method I didn't mind using starting out was wiping white watercolour paint on the metal, then taking my paper sketch and rubbing soft pencil on the back. When you draw back over your design again the lead transfers from the paper to the watercolour paint.

Make sure you read the manual thoroughly on using the GRS gear, get your head around tuning the handpiece and get a feel for what revs work best for the cuts you're trying to make, jackhammer like for deep cuts, humming bird sounds make better small cuts.

Welcome agian

Dani Girl · Nov 26, 2016

If you get a microscope Shimpo turntables are a budget but not bad option worth googling.

Karlspinks · Dec 8, 2016

Thanks for your replies. How do I post pictures on here?

My graversmith still has not arrived so I've been stuck using my micromotor. I would like to share what I've done so far, but compared to any other postings I'm a total amateur. Since I have not bought a turntable I am using my scope by moving the vice often which is very awkward

I'm also cheating by using other designs than my own. But I am drawing a lot.

Karlspinks · Dec 8, 2016

Worked out how to add images.
As you can see I'm just learning very basic.

John B. · Dec 8, 2016

Karlspinks,
You're doing very well for early days.
Draw and study your layout more before cutting.
Your last picture shows a lot of potential despite a few slips.
Keep at it, draw and cut a little each day.
Look for comment and direction here on the forum rather than from friends and family and you'll do well.
Just takes a little time.
Best.

Roger B · Dec 9, 2016

Karlspinks,

Are you sure that you are not destroying legal tender by engraving the copper coins? I'm not sure of the laws in Britain but despite Australia changing currency from pounds, shillings and pence in '66 and moving to decimal currency (and since then discontinuing the 1 and 2 cent coins) I believe that in Oz there are only 2 coins that are no longer legal tender - the Holey Dollar and the Dump - these were created in 1813 from Spanish dollars.

Better to play it safe and buy some copper!

Roger

G Brown · Dec 10, 2016

hello folks new guy here as well, was looking for info about the heel and landed here thankfully. How are you guys creating the heel ? Are you heating the graver to create the radius ? I just down loaded a Lindsey Scroll that Sam A posted here, definitely having some serious dive issues and can see how the heel is needed. So bad in fact I dare not even show it.........

monk said:
i hope it just slipped your mind, you didn't mention drawing pads and pencils. just as important as the toys you have gathered up. i guess you should begin by drawing scroll spines ( spirals), as they are the foundation of nearly all serious design
once you have a decent spiral formed..you will have to cut it. most all store-bought gravers need sharpened. i'd suggest a 90 square, 15 heel, 45 face. have at it. you will likely be surprized-- it will be very easy, or very difficult to do first time around. this art demands practice, and lots of it. if this be a hobby, no real threat. if you want to engrave with the idea of earning money, then you need to slow down, take baby steps. i hope you stick with it, and i wish you luck in your endeavor.

Sam · Dec 10, 2016

G Brown said:
hello folks new guy here as well, was looking for info about the heel and landed here thankfully. How are you guys creating the heel ? Are you heating the graver to create the radius ? I just down loaded a Lindsey Scroll that Sam A posted here, definitely having some serious dive issues and can see how the heel is needed. So bad in fact I dare not even show it.........

From the Tips Archive: http://www.engraverscafe.com/showthread.php?11321-Inexpensive-graver-heeling-method-by-Sam

Karlspinks · Dec 13, 2016

Sam I'm just watching your dvd(engraving scroll work from start to finish) and few very obvious mistakes I have been making are now being rectified. Namely direction of cut. Been very helpfuk.. I'm only halfway through and I'm sure I will watch it over and over

On another note is this suitable as a turntable :

http://www.potclays.co.uk/studio/pr...olid-cast-iron-banding-wheelwhirler-978-x-214

Help, please: Very new to hand engraving

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