The importance of drawing..

grumpyphil · Nov 18, 2016

You might find this interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H59cVnnF9Y

monk · Nov 19, 2016

nice. the computer aided drawing is cool, a time saver as well. without a foundation of drawing skills, the computer will produce perfection, loded with a truckload of boo boos. nowhere is this more evident ( to me) than the sign industry as it is today. rubber stamp results with no "soul" in it. even tho i create signs with modern equipment, few customers wish to pay extra for the "soul" work.

horologist · Nov 19, 2016

Alas those skills take time to learn and the computer lets one work without having to develop such skills. My grandfather was a sign painter who even after retiring kept painting. I remember him telling me about a construction company on Sanibel that wanted the company logo painted on the doors of their trucks and for some reason they were in a hurry. After being told by a local sign painting firm about weeks of delays waiting for templates to be made etc. they were amazed when my grandfather showed up with his box of paints and brushes and did them all in an afternoon.

Troy

SamW · Nov 21, 2016

According to Frank Hendricks drawing is the first of the two necessary skills to engrave...

First, learn to draw what you want to cut...
Second, learn to cut what you draw!!

FANCYGUN · Nov 21, 2016

Like my college art professor said to us all.....
Drawing is your language....the type of art you do is the dialect
In our case its engraving

JJ Roberts · Nov 21, 2016

If your going to engrave firearms you must learn how to draw to be successfully at the art of engraving,anatomy,perspective and composition can only be learned in an art school not from a computer. J.J.

grumpyphil · Nov 21, 2016

JJ Roberts said:
If your going to engrave firearms you must learn how to draw to be successfully at the art of engraving,anatomy,perspective and composition can only be learned in an art school not from a computer. J.J.

The part about learning in an art school I would dispute. I actually attended a very very good school (The Los Angeles Art Center College of Design) I would not have even gotten into the school had I not observed for myself. As to computers, they are only the pencils of the present.

FANCYGUN · Nov 21, 2016

You are forgetting one thing that computers as great as they wont do for you...drawing hones your motor skills if you dont have the coordination to draw it at 3 inches in size you most likely wont have the finess to engrave it at 1/4 inch Dont get me wrong computers are great and i use mine dailey but thr most important engraving tool is still your pencil ive said it before and i just said it again or rather i punched the keys on my ipad to say it ahh technology

grumpyphil · Nov 21, 2016

FANCYGUN said:
You are forgetting one thing that computers as great as they wont do for you...drawing hones your motor skills if you dont have the coordination to draw it at 3 inches in size you most likely wont have the finess to engrave it at 1/4 inch Dont get me wrong computers are great and i use mine dailey but thr most important engraving tool is still your pencil ive said it before and i just said it again or rather i punched the keys on my ipad to say it ahh technology

Drawing on paper or a Cintiq there is virtually no difference in motor skills. One could argue (and I would) that if your finished work is to be drawn, then the subtlety of drawing on paper, board or whatever is to be preferred. Drawings that are going to be transferred for engraving...not so much. Then it becomes another level and kind of expertise.
When I am working conceptually, I much prefer the digital medium.

Thierry Duguet · Nov 21, 2016

I have read countless time of the importance of drawing on paper and I should confess that I never spend much time with this aspect of the work unless I am getting pay for it. I spend more time thinking about what I will be doing and about the actual way to obtain the effect I want to achieve. I do not think that spending countless hours on a computer drawing a few scrolls is time well spend when a little hands on practice will give you the same result in a few minutes, I will go as far as saying that computer help can impair your ability to ever be able to do it by hand. Engraving is neither engineering or architecture and following the perfect line that computer trace for you is not very inspiring, interesting or entertaining.
I draw a little on the item I engrave, if I engrave an English bouquet I will mark the space with circles or ovals, if I do scrolls I will draw the skeleton of the scroll nothing more if I engrave animals I will draw the silhouette and what I find the most significant about it, keeping in mind that at the scale we work on the thickness of the pencil line is just an indication and not a direction. Engraving and drawing are not the same thing, I do not care to draw a perfect scroll or a perfect rose or the perfect bird I care engrave them well, mastery of pencil does not bring mastery of your cutting tool, two different mediums different skill set.
I think that drawing is useful only in so far as it is going to help you appreciate movement, proportion and harmony, it is going to train your eyes recognize and seek those qualities and hopefully project them to your engraving.

JJ Roberts · Nov 22, 2016

Thierry,You were fortunate to study at the Liege gunsmithing school in Belgium did'nt students have to first learn how to draw? it has been my understanding hearing from other engravers who also studied at the Liege that drawing came first. J.J.

Thierry Duguet · Nov 22, 2016

JJ Roberts said:
Thierry,You were fortunate to study at the Liege gunsmithing school in Belgium did'nt students have to first learn how to draw? it has been my understanding hearing from other engravers who also studied at the Liege that drawing came first. J.J.

No, drawing did not come first, engraving, actually cutting metal did! We had a two hours a week class specifically drawing on paper and about 16 hours a week engraving, working on metal. The teachers knew that paper drawing and drawing on metal are different, drawing on paper exercise your eye it give you a tool to achieve your goal on metal From the beginning what you draw, on metal, is the outline of the engraving, shading is never part of it. What we engraved at school was very small, it would not have been desirable or even feasible to draw every detail of the engraving. Imagine that you are engraving fine English scrolls how much of it would you draw, not much, pencil lines are just to wide, what ever shading you will cut is coming from the movement you create with the pattern.
Think about it that way, what does a painter do? He paint, he may create some studies which are just outlines of what he want to create but what he mainly does is painting, using colors, shapes and textures. The outlines he create are just there to help him, drawing is only one of the tool. A painter is not going to create a perfect representation of what he has in mind on a computer or even on paper he understand that his medium is different and that it would not work. One can draw, on paper, the most perfect pattern if one cannot actually engrave it, it is an exercise in futility.
In our case drawing is a tool in the service of engraving, as one's engraving skill increase the engraving will, naturally, become more complex and demanding as drawing will simplify.
Maybe I did not explain myself properly. It is easy to draw complex "things" on paper or computer, drawing can be a pleasure on its own but if one draw to further ones engraving those complex "things" are wasted if one cannot cut a strait line or a regular curve. Drawing is not going to make one a better engraver, only engraving (cutting metal) can do that.

Sam · Nov 22, 2016

With today's tools and instructional aids, in a short time anyone can learn to make acceptable cuts with a graver. It's the drawing part that will ultimately define you.

zzcutter · Nov 22, 2016

I wonder how many engravers that have a full plate really spend time drawing as a portion of there day. I would think they are doing quite a lot of that on the work they are preforming and last thing they want to do after engraving all day is sit down and draw.
That being said. I think that to have gotten where they are today, they probably did a lot of drawing when they where starting out and also to master their given style or styles. They may also spend time drawing for a special projects that are out of the norm or to expand their scroll style and make it more complex or advanced.
I guess if you would prefer to take a back seat to drawing and copy pre drawn designs printed off a computer drawing program that are then applied to your project, then you will always be at the back of the bus to the rest of the engravers who are always trying to bump their designs up one more notch and have drawn their way to where they are today.
Just my 2 cents ZZ

didyoung · Nov 22, 2016

Jon
From what I have seen a person will engrave a pattern better and with more efficiency if they have drawn it first.
A few times I have just given someone a pattern to engrave... it took them a little longer to cut and a few mistakes where made....on the other hand the folks that had an opportunity to draw or even trace a pattern with a pencil made less mistakes and they cut just a tiny bit quicker.
It might be that they had a bit of muscle memory built up and they where mentally prepared for the task .

I am with Sam...it's all about the drawing.

SamW · Nov 22, 2016

My approach is to draw on paper having an outline of the area to be engraved. This larger size allows me to get proportions better (especially animals) and then I reduce with a camera obscura, acetate and scribe to transfer to the metal using a fine black powder and bow string wax. I use transfers to locate items of the drawing in their proper place (again especially animals) but I redraw everything on the metal using a fine scribe and a very light touch. To do this you need to polish the metal to a well worn 600 grit finish with all scratch marks removed. Then the very light (and extremely fine) line can be easily seen and if corrections needed the side of the scribe will burnish out the needed part so corrections can be made.

I never cut from a transfer but always redraw first until I am satisfied with the drawing results. Then I cut what I draw, making any corrections that appear to me as I go.

I find making an outline of the area to be engraved, especially curved areas like barrels, and drawing scroll patterns for transfer makes it easier to get good round scrolls on the curved surface. Trying to draw scrolls on the side of a barrel can be very taxing.

SamW · Nov 23, 2016

To clarify my remarks above, here is an example. To draw the scroll directly on the barrel is not easily done. By wrapping a piece of paper around the area and marking the outline of the proposed scroll position, drawing the scroll on the flattened out paper is easily done. Then a transfer of the pattern to the barrel makes getting quality spirals a snap. Otherwise, what little hair I have left on the top of my head would not be there!

Peter spode · Nov 23, 2016

Quick, Easy and cheap.

It seems that many beginning engravers are having difficulties in drawing scrolls and fitting them into a defined space.
May I offer a simple and cheap solution.
For years I have been using a simple wire former that can be used either during design or directly on the workpiece.Once you have spent some time in making a nice shape of the right size, you are guaranteed consistency across the work and a really fast layout.

JJ Roberts · Nov 23, 2016

Peter,I like your idea of a wire template. :thumbsup:

J.J.

Sam · Nov 23, 2016

Sam W, that is truly masterful work!!

The importance of drawing..

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