What graver steels for what jobs?

Dani Girl

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What are your favorite graver steels to use for what jobs? (you can also share how you sharpen/finish/use them)

thanks
 

Sam

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The short answer is for most of my work I use Cmax carbide sharpened and finished to 1200 grit with the EasyGraver sharpening fixture. If I'm getting a lot of broken points I will either dub the point or switch to HSS (Glensteel) gravers.

For brightcutting in precious metals I polish carbide and HSS gravers on a cast iron lap treated with .5 micro diamond powder.
 

Brian Marshall

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About the same as Sam.

M42 for 70 - 80% of my current work, different carbide for the rest.

Glensteel dulls way too quickly for my uses.

Find your top 3 geometries, sharpen at least a half dozen or better yet a dozen of each - and it's much easier to just reach for another when the time comes.

When you are in "sharpening mode" it is much much more time efficient to do a dozen than it is to stop and/or get up to do just one.

Besides when you are "in the zone" and stop, it takes 15 or 20 minutes to get back there after any kind of break - even a snack or bathroom break.

The odd ones like liners, doglegs, onglettes and rounds - I usually try to keep a couple of each sharpened ahead and ready to go.

Think about what you may encounter or have to do during the day and get it done BEFORE you sit down and start cuttin'!


Mostly "V"s (105 & 110 are my preference) and flats of various widths in my work - but strange stuff comes across my bench pretty regularly - hence the list above...


Brian


I don't own any "square" gravers!

I DO have "square" graver blanks which are then sharpened into either ""V"s or flats.

I find that that "square" graver terminology is very confusing to students...

And it's gonna get worse now that GRS is flogging the round drill bit blanks.

What are you gonna call them? You should call them round blanks, not "round" gravers...
 
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Sam

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Thanks for the reminder.... 120 is my main go-to V graver followed by a 105.
 

monk

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i've amassed quite a few gravers over the years. i no longer sharpen when a point breaks. like brian, i sharpen at least a dozen at a time. the other day i did 14 in one setting. way more convenient for me that way. my entire batch of gravers are color coded, and with a varity of dots, i know what geometry the graver is. doing things this way, when i resharpen, i only go to one lindsay template, or just one setting on the dual angle fixture.
glensteel, ordinary hss, and c-max i use. i'm addicted to flats, and 90's. but do experiment with the wider angle v shapes. as for regular work, i go to 6 or 800. for final, about 1200. i do use diamond powder on a strop, but have no clue as to how many microns. i just no it makes stuff real shiney
 

John B.

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Dani,
One thing to try. You may find it useful to cut the detail in gold with a Carbide graver.
Obviously you don't need it for it's hardness value. But gold chips do not stick to carbide as they do to carbon or HS steel.
When cutting shade lines in gold it's a pain to have to keep cleaning the point of the graver after each cut.
 

Brian Marshall

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Carbide would also be the choice for platinum... there are carbides around my shop that are reserved for platinum - and have never been resharpened in at least 8 years... (long as you don't crash into a diamond with them - they will never dull in platinum or 24K)


B.
 

Dani Girl

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What graver steels do you like to use for working in titanium or stainless steel.

What steels do you use for really small points and undercutting gravers for inlay?

Carbide in gold, that's a good tip. Thanks. Lubricating with tap magic or some oil handy would help with gold not sticking too?

Sometimes I still have trouble with heel drag on tight curves. Does it help to have a longer heel or something else?

I do like M42 for lots of work, in stainless steel or brass etc. Carbide is my go to for just about everything though. Cmax doesn't chip out as easily as Lindsay's carbides but they're heaps shorter so you get as much life out of eitherl. Flats and 116 degree V's do just about everything on my bench.
 
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John B.

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What graver steels do you like to use for working in titanium or stainless steel.

What steels do you use for really small points and undercutting gravers for inlay?

Carbide in gold, that's a good tip. Thanks. Lubricating with tap magic or some oil handy would help with gold not sticking too?

Sometimes I still have trouble with heel drag on tight curves. Does it help to have a longer heel or something else?

I do like M42 for lots of work, in stainless steel or brass etc. Carbide is my go to for just about everything though. Cmax doesn't chip out as easily as Lindsay's carbides but they're heaps shorter so you get as much life out of eitherl. Flats and 116 degree V's do just about everything on my bench.

Dani,
Personally I don't use lube when cutting gold. As far as heel drag goes in gold a lot of it comes about because of the softness of the gold.
Slight side pressure from the secondary heel point pushes and ploughs the soft metal rather than cutting it.
I try to cut it using a high hand position, keeping the secondary point from making contact. Does that make any sense?
Like you say, for many other metals, my go-to gravers are M-42 or Cobalt.
Some stainless and titanium is "sticky or gummy" and levers the points off of the Carbides et al. Then you get a disaster type break.
I prefer to go with a softer graver, M-42 or cobalt, 55-60 face, dubbed and radiused and light multiple cuts to get the job done.
For undercutting chisels I use M-42 for toughness. Shape like a miniature flat screwdriver and sharpened with a pulled and lifting wiping motion against a 320 grit cloth glued to a smooth flat piece of hardwood.
This produces a slightly radiused and textured, strong contour behind the knife sharp edge. I use mostly H&C to undercut using this tool.
For power undercutting or crosshatch burs I use the same tool but flatten the radius on one side on the 600 diamond lap wheel.
With this tool in the power handpiece I pull the cutter/graver back towards myself creating a constant raised line.
Dani, I realize you know most of this but there may be some other followers that don't. Hope we can both help them.
Love seeing your beautiful engraving, it's always elegant.
 
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Jan Hendrik

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I use Carbald gravers for 90% of my work.
For stippling I will use M42 gravers shaped to a 6 sided point.
For Titanium work I use WD40 as a lubricant when cutting the recessed areas for inlays and background removal using flat gravers which I also dub (yes, I dub my flat gravers). I do not use lubricant with the other graver geometries when cutting Titanium, but I dub the points.
For cutting stainless I use Carbald gravers and I dub the points.
I always sharpen with narrow heels (less than 0.3mm) to reduce heel drag.
 

Dani Girl

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Thanks JohnB

The only line I didn't quite follow was this...

For power undercutting or crosshatch burs I use the same tool but flatten the radius on one side on the 600 diamond lap wheel.??
 

Dani Girl

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Thanks folks.

Dub flats, hmmmm.... I sharpen a third of the face or the whole thing at a rather high angle if i'm having trouble snapping flat gravers. I'm going to try the WD40 and everything else I have handy next time I'm taking the background out on Titanium

Can anyone explain this... when I was cutting tiny tight scrolls on a sterling silver pendant using a 116 degree V graver I was having serious heel drag issues. I took the point out and swapped for another 116 which had massive heels on it fully expecting it to be worse but I had to try something... worked a charm. That just doesn't make any sense does it?

I do usually have really really short heels (is the only reason to lengthen them to make straight lines easier?)
Is the only reason to have a really low face angle to make it easier to see what you're doing?

Thanks again JohnB.... I am finished being a teenager so I don't know everything anymore, it was nice though.
 

Brian Marshall

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" I am finished being a teenager so I don't know everything anymore, it was nice though."


Yup, been stuck in that place for decades now - the one where where I don't know everything.

Sadly, the next stage seems to be not knowing anything...

Been trying to put that one off as hard as I can - but like Mark Twain said - not possible.

Disremembering or remembering things that never happened seems to be inevitable?


B.
 
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TallGary

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Can anyone explain this... when I was cutting tiny tight scrolls on a sterling silver pendant using a 116 degree V graver I was having serious heel drag issues. I took the point out and swapped for another 116 which had massive heels on it fully expecting it to be worse but I had to try something... worked a charm. That just doesn't make any sense does it?



Dani,

This is just a guess. You may have unconsciously made a change in your technique that resolved the heel drag problem because you expected the issue to be worse with the longer heel.

I know it doesn't help you figure out the issue, just my guess.

As others have stated in other threads -- keeping your elbow up and rolling into the curve solves a lot of heel drag problems.

Best regards,
 

rmgreen

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Careful with WD40

Be careful around sealed optics, microscopes, rifle scopes etc. WD40 is bad to creep around seals on glass lenses and end up giving the rainbow hase on the inside surface of optics. WD40 is banded from my shop in spray cans.
 

John B.

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Thanks JohnB

The only line I didn't quite follow was this...

For power undercutting or crosshatch burs I use the same tool but flatten the radius on one side on the 600 diamond lap wheel.??

Dani,
My undercutting chisel for H&C has a radius supporting the cutting edge on both sides. For power undercutting or crosshatch undercut bur fields I form a radius only on one side of the chisel, the side that is going to be up. The side that is the bottom of the chisel is flat behind the cutting edge.
On your small scroll cutting of silver and getting heel drag.
With the short heel you probably did not cut with a high enough hand angle and ran into drag from the secondary, back of heel point.
When you switched to the same shape graver but with a long heel you probably unconsciously compensated, cut with a higher hand angle also known as "cutting off the point." Just my guess.
But the basic answer is.......The tighter the scroll the higher the hand angle to avoid heel drag.
 

Archie Woodworth

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Was at a friends shop, the other day, when he asked if I knew anything about a box of what looked like round (0.110 inch x 14 inch long) wires...didnt have any idea what it was other than they were quite heavy (compared to regular steel wire of same size). Looking at the box there were the words "Carboloy". I remember hearing about Carboloy...it was first invented by GE back in the late 1920's. Carboloy is an alloy containing cobalt, tungsten, and carbon. This alloy is extremely hard, harder than steel; it is used to cut steel, porcelain, quartz, and other materials. Its hardness is little affected by heat, and it retains a sharp cutting edge even at red heat. I have no idea what it had be used for originally but I thought Ill try "repurposing" for engraving. Sure enough they worked wonderfully; this stuff cuts like a razor cuts. So at this point, I'm figuring there is about a 10 life-times supply of graver blanks in that box. From each rod I can cut 5 standard length gravers or $75.00 dollars worth. The tip will chip but you have to be doing some really extreme aerobatics to break it... For really wide cuts (as another posted earlier) just take a couple of passes at it. Also, rigid work support is critical .... I found that even using carpet tape allows for too much wiggle.

To use the Carboloy, I had to machine an adapter for the Linsey sharpening fixture ... when resharpening, it is necessary to "index" the graver. I do this by installing the graver to correct length and just slightly tightening the holding screw. Then I take the fixture and set it on the grinder as tho I was going to sharpen and press down on the tip of the graver with a finger...the pressure causes the round graver to "index" back to the correct plane, next tighten screw as usual and then one can start the resharpening process. The other graver steel that I use is M42. My grinding process is to use diamond 100 then 600 and then to an iron wheel (charged with diamond dust) to polish on the heels and face. That goes for both Carboloy and tool steel.

IMG_8244.jpg IMG_8238.jpg IMG_8237 2.jpg
 
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mdengraver

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The GRS catalogue gives some explanation of the characteristics of the graver steels used for engraving starting on p42.! PDF]
Catalog - GRS Tools
https://www.grstools.com › PDF › GRSC...
PRODUCT CATALOG. 2015-2016. BenchMate®. ENCORE. HUNDREDS OF USEFUL PRODUCTS. PLUS HELPFUL TECH TIPS. PAGE 24 with QuickChange Fixtures. NEW!
You visited this page on 11/30/16.
 
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