Critique Request Small Eros

Jonathans · Oct 28, 2016

What do you guys think of this design for a small (3") knife?

Jonathans · Oct 28, 2016

No comments after 73 views so I guess it's bad.
Here's my other attempt which I think I screwed up.
Perhaps there are some ok elements in it, but may not work together.
I have Sams scroll drawing DVD on the way that might straighten me out!

Bluetickhound · Oct 28, 2016

Lee's book/video set is also really worth getting, if you haven't already. Sam's video is money well spent and not just the scroll vid. All of them have been a huge help to me.

As far as your drawings go, I'm probably the last person to offer any input but I will anyway... It's how I roll!!

The first drawing looks like a good start if you were going to do a English scroll style deal, but otherwise looks (to my VERY untrained eye) too busy with repetitive scrolls and not enough variation to make it visually interesting

The second drawing looks really good to me except for the middle top coming out of the "jellybean" (my term, TIFWIW!). It doesn't seem connected to anything. Other than that, I love it. I hope you'll work it out and actually cut the knife, i can't wait to see the finished product!!

atexascowboy2011 · Oct 28, 2016

What difference does anyone else liking your piece make ?
Cut a piece of copper to match your knife, engrave it and decide for yourself !
Carry this piece around for several weeks.
If after a few weeks you're still happy with the design or need to tweak it, do it .

Jonathans · Oct 29, 2016

atexascowboy2011 said:
What difference does anyone else liking your piece make ?
Cut a piece of copper to match your knife, engrave it and decide for yourself !
Carry this piece around for several weeks.
If after a few weeks you're still happy with the design or need to tweak it, do it .

True, but if you saw what I first thought was decent you would understand!

Jonathans · Oct 29, 2016

Bluetickhound said:
Lee's book/video set is also really worth getting, if you haven't already. Sam's video is money well spent and not just the scroll vid. All of them have been a huge help to me.

As far as your drawings go, I'm probably the last person to offer any input but I will anyway... It's how I roll!!

The first drawing looks like a good start if you were going to do a English scroll style deal, but otherwise looks (to my VERY untrained eye) too busy with repetitive scrolls and not enough variation to make it visually interesting

The second drawing looks really good to me except for the middle top coming out of the "jellybean" (my term, TIFWIW!). It doesn't seem connected to anything. Other than that, I love it. I hope you'll work it out and actually cut the knife, i can't wait to see the finished product!!

Thanks,
I redid the section you thought was disconnected. I think it's looking better. I think I'll take a Texas cowboys advise and cut in on a copper "knife" to get a feel for it and to see whether I can actually cut it. Great suggestion.

atexascowboy2011 · Oct 29, 2016

Drawings are one thing.
Cutting the plate to the finish will give a totally different look. Background and all.

Sam · Oct 29, 2016

Your design is suffering from what I call point errors. See my illustration which shows that some lines point outside the scroll instead of growing with the flow. You really need to train your eye to see these errors.

dlilazteca · Oct 29, 2016

Thanks for taking the time Sam.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

speeedy6 · Oct 29, 2016

I like what TEXASCOWBOY said. I'm so new at design and layout, it takes a while of me looking at it so it soaks in if I like it or not. I draw it on the knife and look at it every time I walk by it.

Jonathans · Oct 29, 2016

Thank you Sam,
I'll start looking for that. Texascowboy, I'm getting close to start cutting this as practice. I believe as you say it will take on a different look, especially if I'm looking at it without the scope!

Jonathans · Oct 29, 2016

Today, I decided I can do better, and redrew the leaves and tendrils. I tried to focus on where my lines flowed, balancing negative space, and consistancy of approach throughout the piece. I realize I'm still somewhat wonky with some of my line quality, but at least feel I did better overall. I am finding this much harder than I expected, and really do appreciate everyone's patience with my slow progress.
Here's today's approach.

After I shaded the background I could see that one central element was way too thick so I brought the curve in.

Mike_Morgan · Oct 30, 2016

Note 1: The leaf that is originating from that point doesn't appear to be "growing" from the scroll. It abruptly appears, breaking the flow of the design.

Note 2: The leaf awkwardly exits the scroll, spoiling the flow.

Note 3: This leaf is basically floating in space, next to the scroll. it fills up space, but it seriously disrupts the feel of the leaf structure.

Sam · Oct 30, 2016

Jonathan: I think you're exceeding your design limits with some of the flourishes and elements you're attempting to use. I would advise you to keep it really simple in the beginning. When you can design basic scroll to perfection, you will be ready proceed to more advanced elements.

Mike correctly pointed out some problem areas. You should also note the backwards running part inside your large "C" scroll.

Jonathans · Oct 30, 2016

Thanks Mike, I can see those right away. Thanks for taking the time to point them out.

Sam, other than the leaves to fill in the outside, I thought what I was doing was the most basic unless I stick to tendrils.
"C" scrolls are confusing for me as they seem inherently backwards on themselves.
I look forward to receiving your DVD.

Jonathans · Oct 30, 2016

Mike_Morgan said:
Note 1: The leaf that is originating from that point doesn't appear to be "growing" from the scroll. It abruptly appears, breaking the flow of the design.

Note 2: The leaf awkwardly exits the scroll, spoiling the flow.

Note 3: This leaf is basically floating in space, next to the scroll. it fills up space, but it seriously disrupts the feel of the leaf structure.

Here's my attempt to fix some of the issues Mike pointed out.

Mike_Morgan · Oct 30, 2016

Jonathans said:
Here's my attempt to fix some of the issues Mike pointed out.
View attachment 39791

Jonathans... good job correcting the one leaf towards the middle... but let's look at the overall design.

In my diagram here, you can see that position 1 in the yellow circle is the point of origin of the scrolls you created. Everything should be flowing away from this point along the spine of the two sections that emanate from that point.

This means that the leaves in section 2 are heading in the wrong direction, and therefore section 3 is heading in the wrong direction. These leaf elements need to be reversed and heading away from the point of origin.

The leaf (4) that you corrected at the top is reaching WAY too far from the scroll from which it is unfurling. So let's think about that leaf... it seems to be there to fill the negative space it is occupying. You should shorten that leaf and occupy the space directly to the right of the Point of Origin (1)

Now, fill that space that was formerly occupied by 4, by unfurling a leaf from position 5 (green). This will result in a much more natural scroll growth.

Sam made the comment that you're getting a little bit ahead of yourself, and that you should stick to simpler elements, and I agree with that, but I also feel that you should spend some time studying "scroll theory". You need a clear understanding of how to grow a scroll, or scrolls from a point of origin, paying close attention to not only where the leaves go, but more importantly "why" they go there.

I hope this helps.

Mike

Bluetickhound · Oct 30, 2016

If you flipped the entire right side of the design from the C scroll to the butt of the handle upside down the flow would ( in my opinion) be better. The small end of the C scroll is flowing the same clockwise direction as the scoll to the left of it. Also, if the large leaf design in the belly of the C scroll were pointing the other way I think it would look more natural. I would lose the unconnected deal currently at the top center altogether. When you get Sam's DVD it will be much clearer to you what he's getting at about Point errors...

Bluetickhound · Oct 30, 2016

Well, Mike said pretty much the same things! Looking at it again it may be easier to flip everything to the LEFT of the C scroll (and still eliminate the random element top middle). It would preserve the effort to avoid the rivet at the butt. Also, the leaf element would fill that negative space.

Jonathans · Oct 30, 2016

Mike,
Thanks for taking the time to help me out. It amazes me how I can read books about scroll structure and watch dvds, yet in practice my gears aren't meshing! I originally wanted to fill my backbones on this piece with just a few simple leaf structures, but couldn't figure it out, so went to Shawn Didyoungs book and practiced what he showed as step one. From now I will stay simpler in my endeavors but have to see this one out!
I appreciate your guidance.

Critique Request Small Eros

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