First run at Ranger Buckles

maplesm · Oct 12, 2016

Thanks again to Brian for putting me on the right path. Started with the die made from Plexiglas in the containment vessel.

Put the vessel in the press.

Pumped it up to 5500 and removed from press.

Removed the metal from the vessel and trimmed.

Soldered on the back and trimmed.

I found that if I used a little lube on the metal things went better especially with thinner metal. Any corrections suggestions or comments welcome.

Brian Marshall · Oct 12, 2016

Looks like you are definitely on the right path!

One little trick... If you pickle the piece after soldering (and I do), use a hypodermic full of baking soda solution injected into the air escape hole to neutralize any remaining acid. Then inject rinse water to remove that.

Shake out as much as possible by swinging your arm to create centrifugal force.

I dry 'em out on top of the steamer which remains warm all day - though I guess there are other ways? Maybe gently warming with an alcohol lamp?

If you don't do that, there will be complaints of leaking, staining, and sometimes even a burn hole in the trousers....

Strategic vent holes can aid the process. (a little closer to the edge)

Brian

One thing you might check. Your product looks a wee bit asymmetrical? If that's not an optical illusion, you can simply remove a little material with a Foredom and rotary bur until it is perfectly symmetrical...

maplesm · Oct 12, 2016

I will try the baking soda - rinsed and drained but should have thought of the baking soda. The picture gave it that look but didn't
want to retake. I will also move the vent. It was a bugger to get all the water out. Thanks again

Brian Marshall · Oct 12, 2016

Another idea to dry it out, though the alcohol lamp seems best all around?

Maybe take an old aquarium air pump, hook a hypodermic to the airline tubing and just leave it running for an hour or so?

AFTER you shake out as much as possible...

Brian

delder · Oct 12, 2016

I wonder if you were to solder on some decorative elements before forming, what effect that might have. hmmmm

Brian Marshall · Oct 12, 2016

Not a good one in most cases... I would not recommend it. (having tried it long ago myself)

The metal(s) would be thicker in cross section and stretching at the point at which the metal(s) suddenly got thinner.

OR, the forming wouldn't be uniform because of the rigidity of say, a cast overlay.

And then you have the added problem of making sure that the "pre-overlaid" sheet stays absolutely centered - in position - and doesn't slip around during the process.

You cannot see where it is from the backside of the sheet to position it. It is face down in the die when I do it.

However it looks like "maples" did it with the face up with the rubber underneath? That might help with centering?

But you still have the first two problems. And I have actually had the metal tear with a thick cast overlay and thin sheet...

Brian

Soldering on a filigree overlay before pressing would get the thinner "background" spaces "pushed" up between the leaves.

The only way around that would be to use solid male die and press into the rubber and then you would not get a crisp flange around it like you see in his images.

delder · Oct 12, 2016

makes sense Brian....

tdelewis · Oct 13, 2016

The form box looks like it is a commercial product. If it is where did you get it. This would make a good youtube video. I'd like to see that.

maplesm · Oct 13, 2016

The containment box is bonny doon from Rio Grande.

LVCIAN · Oct 13, 2016

delder said:
I wonder if you were to solder on some decorative elements before forming, what effect that might have. hmmmm

I'm guessing they would pop off during the forming.
The difference in ID and OD would create a force that the solder couldn't handle.

Plus in an unmatrixed die like this anything not held in place by the platen would not take on the new shape.

Brian Marshall · Oct 13, 2016

If the overlays are soldered in place with silver solder they will not "pop off".

That is only possible with a low temp lead or bismuth alloy solder.

What will happen with enough pressure is that the thinner metal may stretch and tear or fracture right next to the overlay.

It will also not bend or form at the same rate... there is likely to be distortion.

Brian

tdelewis · Oct 15, 2016

I went to Reo Grande and looked at the set-up. They also have some videos. I was wondering, could you use a hand operated jack in place of the unit they use?

Brian Marshall · Oct 15, 2016

Yes, you can use pretty much any hydraulic jack that meets the tonnage requirements for your work - and still fits into the press frame.

20 ton seems to handle most silversmithing and jewelers work.

I have seen thin work formed with as little as 5 tons - 26 gauge and thinner.

The original Bonny Doon (made by Lee Marshall) and other presses utilized hand operated Harbor Freight jacks.

Back then they were under $40? Haven't bought any for quite a few years...

Brian

First run at Ranger Buckles

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