Noob Question

Jonathans

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
126
Location
Port Orchard WA
Up until now I've been practicing on steel, and have been making ok progress with my lines and depth control.
Today, I started on my first nickel with a 120 degree sq and the same sharp graver that has been working well for me on steel was cutting way too deep. I switched over to a 90 and increased the heel a bit and it's a little better. I am using a Gravermach AT with a 901 at around 2200sps adjusted psi to until the hand-piece stops buzzing.
Should settings be different for soft materials?
What is the preferred graver for nickels?
Thanks
Jonathan
 

Andrew Biggs

Moderator
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
5,034
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Should settings be different for soft materials?

22 is a bit hard hitting. I only use the lower numbers for hammering gold inlay or when I need to hit the begeebers out of something. :)

Try buttoning it back to 33 and go easy on the foot pedal............That is where I do 99% of my cutting. I take it back to about 55 for stippling and cutting 24k gold.

Regardless of what you use...........The biggest thing that will affect your depth of cutting is your angle of attack. That means the angle you first place your graver tip into the work. If it's too high then your graver will plunge downwards. Too low and your graver will skid out of the cut or across your work. This applies to all gravers.

So try lowering your hand slightly and ease up on the foot pedal if you are using that.

Cheers
Andrew
 

Jonathans

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
126
Location
Port Orchard WA
Thanks Andrew,
I'll try it at the higher numbers. I switched over to palm control recently when I got the AT.
Also, I've been entering into the cut sort of steep, and then bring the graver down once the cut starts to try to keep some uniformity through the length of cut, otherwise I have to reverse on the cut to widen the first section. Hope that makes sense!
 

John B.

Lifetime Pledge Member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
3,950
Location
Los Angeles area, California.
Thanks Andrew,
Also, I've been entering into the cut sort of steep, and then bring the graver down once the cut starts to try to keep some uniformity through the length of cut, otherwise I have to reverse on the cut to widen the first section. Hope that makes sense!

Johnathans,
That is called" back cutting" and is quite normal on good work.
 

monk

Moderator
Staff member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
10,857
Location
washington, pa
steel ( mild steel) cuts nicely, as does the nickel. but as you go from one material to another, slightly different approaches will be called for. a far different "touch" is needed when doing hobos. the very size of what you'll be doing will show this right away. i think you will find a need to begin making your own tools to make this work a bit easier. at least this has been my experience when doing these.
 

Jonathans

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
126
Location
Port Orchard WA
steel ( mild steel) cuts nicely, as does the nickel. but as you go from one material to another, slightly different approaches will be called for. a far different "touch" is needed when doing hobos. the very size of what you'll be doing will show this right away. i think you will find a need to begin making your own tools to make this work a bit easier. at least this has been my experience when doing these.

I've actually begun to try different grind angle on a nick that I butchered and flattened. It might be easier to follow prescribed geometries, but perhaps this way I might learn how the changes effect the performance. I've also discovered that different sections of a nickel seem to cut differently which doesn't help!
 

Andrew Biggs

Moderator
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
5,034
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
look to your angle of attack first..........As John B has said, it's normal to have a slightly tapered initial cut so you have to back cut sometimes. That is all normal stuff.

Regrinding your tools is not going to do you any favours. Just stick to normal geometries because no matter what the angles are..........if your angle of attack is too steep, then you will plunge down and go to deep with the cut.

When engraving........hand control is everything!!!! :)

Cheers
Andrew
 

monk

Moderator
Staff member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
10,857
Location
washington, pa
john baraclaugh showed how to make gravers from dental drills or burs. the brass tubing is square, and allows indexing the round bur shafts. i find that the standard geometries work just as well on the micro gravers. a very gentle touch is required to do the facets. the one shown here- 45 degree face, 10 degree heel, and 2 side grinds
 

Attachments

  • MICRO FLAT.JPG
    MICRO FLAT.JPG
    71.1 KB · Views: 106

Jonathans

Elite Cafe Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
126
Location
Port Orchard WA
Thanks Monk, I'll give those a try.
Andrew, I've been grinding my heels at 15 degrees. Would it make much of a difference to go with 10 degrees. Less of an angle of attack, right?
 

Andrew Biggs

Moderator
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
5,034
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Would it make much of a difference to go with 10 degrees. Less of an angle of attack, right?

No...........your heel has very little to do with the angle of attack and depth control. The heel is for the angle you hold your hand when cutting. Which in most cases is roughly about 15 degrees or thereabouts.

The angle of attack...........is the angle when you first plunge into the metal. Typically we stab into the metal to get the graver tip to bite into the metal...then lower our hand to make the actual cut. This all happens in a micro second.

If your angle of attack is initially to high or to deep........then that will pretty much dictate the depth of the cut even if you lower your hand to the 15 degrees. The heel just enables you to track along easier at whatever depth.

Your problem is going to deep.........so hold your hand lower and when you first cut into the work. Try it on a piece of scrap at various angles and you will see what I'm getting at :)

Cheers
Andrew
 

John B.

Lifetime Pledge Member
::::Pledge Member::::
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
3,950
Location
Los Angeles area, California.
QUOTE by Monk.

John Barraclough ( John B.) showed how to make gravers from dental drills or burs. The brass tubing is square, and allows indexing the round bur shafts for shaping and sharpening.

Thank you for posting that Monk. To avoid hijacking Jonathan's post I will post a comment in a new thread.
 

Sponsors

Top