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Thread: Block ball vice

  1. #21
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    No problem Steve Lindsay make that exact vise, for use on a turntable check his web site
    Last edited by Dave London; 05-21-2017 at 03:38 AM.

  2. #22
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    These knock off machines from certain countries are the fault of NAFTA. The original treaty required that stated that the product must meet the &*6000 standards. I don't remember the letters off hand. The had to do with quality control. If an American product was to be produced in a participating signees' country and they had an agreement with the original paten holder to reproduce them they had to meet original factory specs to within .0001 thousandth. A few would be tested from each run and when a certain percentage reached specs they could go into production. The first problems occurred in China. they would get one factory producing good products then open as many production facilities as the market could bare. A company I worked for was battling them over quality control on the production of auto replacement parts. they finally gave up and withdrew permission to manufacture. they did not stop manufacturing and lots of problems were born that day.
    Want to learn to engrave, "cut an inch a Day every Day" Jim Small
    Fred Marrinan

  3. #23
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    I have to disagree with the NAFTA reference Fred as it is the North American Free Trade Agreement and covers trade between the U.S.,
    Canada and Mexico! It doesn't include overseas countries!

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by vslynes View Post
    I have to disagree with the NAFTA reference Fred as it is the North American Free Trade Agreement and covers trade between the U.S.,
    Canada and Mexico! It doesn't include overseas countries!
    You are probably right but I thought Fred's reference to .0001 thousand was very interesting - I just can't believe how astonishingly bad the machining is on these vices in this day and age. Buy a nikon camera or Leica lenses or pull the covers off virtually anything and see where it is made. Maybe there just isn't enough money/volume sales for a half decent pac rim company to make them and its been left to these impostors to make the only alternative to top of the line ball vices - I dunno

  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve L S View Post
    You are probably right but I thought Fred's reference to .0001 thousand was very interesting
    It might be "interesting" but it's too garbled to take much from. I would bet that Fred was dealing with a specific contractual issue, where the American outsourcer wasn't being as diligent about inspecting the overseas production facilities as necessary. I would, however, be interested to learn how any treaty (NAFTA, NATO, etc.) plays into it. Anyways, back to vises...


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve L S View Post
    Maybe there just isn't enough money/volume sales for a half decent pac rim company to make them
    There might be a market out there for "good, but not GRS good" block vises. But to be honest, it wouldn't be all that big (quality blocks don't need replacing) so the economies of scale aren't there.

    As a thought experiment, I found the parts layout for the GRS "Standard" (link to manual), and thought about how I'd go about recreating it. The GRS ball is machined from stainless steel. The best bet would seem to be starting with round bar and machining out top and bottom "domes." (here's an example of a crazy person who did just that, but with scrap mild steel).

    On onlinemetals.com, rough turned 17-4 stainless at 5" diameter will run you $300+ per foot. Figure that you can get away with 6" portions, call it $150. For an untouched hunk of metal. (mild steel doesn't look much better-- ~$130 for 6" of 8620).

    Then you've got the various screws and holders and pins and off-the-shelf components (quality bearings are spendy). Add in fixed costs like tooling. Maybe you can pretend that labor is free. Then double your costs (at least) to get a retail price, and it won't take you long to be charging pretty close to the $500 that GRS gets.

    Even if you could do it for, say, $350, how many takers would you get who can afford $350, but not an extra $150 to get the gold standard?

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