Copyright once and for all

Dani Girl · Sep 3, 2016

I have read a bit about copyright but I find my understanding as clear as mud.

Can folks give examples of what you can/should do when stealing like an artist.

Thanks all

mdengraver · Sep 3, 2016

Steal Like An Artist

Steal Like An Artist
https://www.amazon.com/Steal-Like-Artist-Things-Creative/dp/0761169253

Bluetickhound · Sep 3, 2016

There's a good article on the iGraver tab about copying the work of others. It might seem like there's not much room for originality or innovation any more but when I look at Sam's work, Andrew's work, Shawn's work, Marcus' work or any number of other engravers (including YOUR work, Dani) all of you have individual "fingerprints" that are very plain to see. I think that engraving becomes art in that space where you develop your own signature... Stevie Ray Vaughn grew up idolizing Hendrix but sounded nothing like him when he stepped out on his own. There's a lesson to be learned there....

gcleaker · Sep 3, 2016

Often imitated but never duplicated, my personal thought is students of art will always copy the masters! I guess that you can patent a style, as Harley Davison tried to patent the sound that their exhaust made by their bikes. H.D. was able to show this sound was unique to them for over 75 years. So to copyright a style it will be reasonable to expect the same thing. The problem being is to prove that your style has never been done before. Moreover proving damages real or believed is a completely different thing. I personally feel that you should be quite proud that so many want to emulate you. :thinking:

tdelewis · Sep 3, 2016

You can copyright your work but it most likely will not help because others will change it slightly and engrave differently. They will claim it as their own and going after them for infringements will prove costly and you most likely would not be successful. Just my thought.

Riflesmith · Sep 3, 2016

Copyright can be a tough act, try "intellectual property" I have hundreds of pages of leaf and scroll progression designs and have gotten into the habit of signing and dating them. I don't study other engravers work I tend to glance at it but sometime their shading will catch my eye. With the number of engraving artists out there it's hard to develop something that hasn't already been done. Draw and look for balance and interest. JMO

peteb · Sep 3, 2016

Steal like an artist: The author, Austin Kleon cautions that he does not mean ‘steal’ as in plagiarise, skim or rip off — but study, credit, remix, mash up and transform. Creative work builds on what came before, and thus nothing is completely original.
In this forum we are told go ahead and copy the scrolls of the masters for practice but if you are doing this to decorate guns, knives and jewelry for profit then you had better develop some new variation, as if, as the author suggests, there is some scroll that nobody has ever done before. Is that likely?
Is taking a photo, photo of a painting or photo of a statue of say, a swan, and interpreting that in metal using the engraver's art an example of "stealing like an artist"? How would the engraver of pistol grips depicting Patton or McArthur even know what they looked like if not referring to some previous rendering or photo? In any event, if the originator can be found, then permission to use the art could be sought and if not attribution of some kind would be appropriate.

Dani Girl · Sep 3, 2016

Yeah I guess my question is more directly what can/should I do.

Like if I wanted to bulino engrave a picture of a dog, a bird, a deer, a person, a cartoon character, etc... onto a pendant and then sell it. Can I use pictures I find on the internet for one off things? Do I need to find my artwork to work from on sites where you can talk to the artists, photographers, etc?

What kind of attribution would make it ok if any?

My head just gets boggled if you say too many you can'ts... ...I just need to hear "This is ok to do"

Thanks all

Danae.

DanM · Sep 3, 2016

Use of photos,etc. from the internet, http://www.copyrightlaws.com/creators/copyright-law-using-images-and-photos-from-google/

Dani Girl · Sep 4, 2016

Thanks Danm.

So where do you find creative commons lisences and permission to use info?

mdengraver · Sep 4, 2016

There's an old saying, "there is nothing new is under the sun!

Eugene Carkoski · Sep 5, 2016

my teacher in art class said just change something than its not the same

JJ Roberts · Sep 5, 2016

Eugene,I call it making creative change's. J.J.

Marcus Hunt · Sep 5, 2016

DanM said:
Use of photos,etc. from the internet, http://www.copyrightlaws.com/creators/copyright-law-using-images-and-photos-from-google/

Hmm, I think that's really related to take a photo or image from the Internet and using it as is, i.e. copying and pasting it. If you took a picture of a duck for engraving purposes I doubt a photographer would ever come across your work and say, "That's my duck!" There are thousands out there. And if you change it slightly with a wing feather spacing say, who can prove it?

We do not have to become our own wildlife photographers in order to engrave. What are you going to do if someone wants a snow leopard on a knife? Book a trip to the Himalayas for several months in the hope you might see, let alone photograph one?

Now, if you're going to steal a design like a Disney character I doubt anyone will come after you if its for your own use. But if you then stick it all over the net in order to get more orders I think Disney might have something to say about licensing fees or they'll sue you.

If you copy someone's scrollwork designs exactly in order to make money out of them that's not right, but use it as an inspiration and change a few bits to make it your own and there's nothing wrong in my eyes. Artists have been doing it for centuries.

Jkasal · Sep 7, 2016

Well said Marcus Hunt

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Marrinan · Sep 8, 2016

There are a few companies who copyright very seriously. They make lots of money from lic agreements. Harley is one. Disney is another. which is my funny story to lighten your day. Disney went into litigation with the artist for a modern art representation of Mickey Mouse. The painting sold at a charity auction for over $200,000 and Disney flipped out. they sue the action house the promoters the advertisers-everybody including the artist. The artist was unable to appear in court as she weighed just over 6000 pounds. the defense kept this a closely guarded secret right up to the trial.

My point is someone steals your art- embarrass the kangaroo crap out of them. You steal someone else's work for profit expect the same

Dani Girl · Sep 10, 2016

Thanks Marrinan. That's a great way of putting it that makes sense to me. I will just keep asking people and see who wants to collaborate with me. I think learning to actually draw well is in my future somewhere. And I will be careful about borrowing animal pictures off the internet so that I'm not just flat out stealing but adapting parts of the photos into scenes I'll construct and adapt to suit.

Dani Girl · Nov 7, 2016

So to use a specific example I was looking at this book in town of asian designs.

(Note to the reader on images. Works shown are in woodblock print medium unless otherwise stated. Unitalicized titals are contemporary descriptions rather than the artist's own/historically accepted. Illustrations in the book may reproduce impressions from the first print run of a series, or may be later prints - such as reprints by Takamizawa (1890-1940) or by Adachi from the Showa period (1926-1989). The age/edition fo a particular print is not always known, so any dates given in captions are the dates of original creation/publication unless otherwise ...)

Would it be lame, illegal, or just basically frowned upon to use such images from the book for engravings to sell. It's legal if they've been dead for more than x years I think... but still lame right?

Thierry Duguet · Nov 7, 2016

I think that there is a big difference between using a drawing and using a picture of an animal in its natural habitat. In a wildlife picture of a duck the photographer cannot claim ownership of the duck, you cannot use the picture without permission, the picture itself is the property the duck belong to nature, things in nature cannot be patented or copyright. Now if I use a picture of "Alien" (the movie) and use it to engrave a portrait of the "Alien", it is a copyright infringement as both of the picture and of the subject are copyright, they are not find in nature, they are original man made creation, I think it can go as fare as just being recognize as such, meaning that changing a minor detail or the color would not protect you if "a reasonable person" can still recognize the original subject. The representation of a duck {drawing, painting, etc.) is also man made, David Mass own his ducks and every part of his painting.
Copyright is not an universal law, it varies from country to country, the US has a ridiculously long lasting one, it is currently life of the author plus 70 years.
I for one would not be able to rigorously copy my own work so I know that if I take the picture of a duck the engraved result will be different from the original, if I engrave the same duck 10 times the result will all be somewhat different each time so the duck's picture is more an inspiration than a model, each result will be original. It is actually what I most like about hand engraving, its uniqueness!

Copyright once and for all

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