Master engraver?

SamW · Aug 30, 2016

Nicely put Lee!!

Andrew, you are so right. I somewhat cringe when I am called a Master Engraver. I am fairly good at what I do but what I do only scratches the surface of what can be and has been done in the field. Had I started when I was 3 I might have gotten a bit farther along in the learning process but one lifetime is never enough!!

I must admit that I much prefer being referred to as a "well known" engraver which implies to me an earned reputation among clientele.

As Lee says, come to the Vegas show and you will be warmly welcomed!!

Sam · Aug 30, 2016

SamW said:
I somewhat cringe when I am called a Master Engraver.

SAM WELCH IS A MASTER ENGRAVER

::::snicker::::

Barry Lee Hands · Aug 30, 2016

Lee said:
A myth that somehow prevails is that one must be a Master to display at the show. False. If you engrave and want to display come please and be welcomed. If you don't want to display and engrave come please. If you don't engrave but like engraving come please. It is the most welcoming group I have ever had the opportunity to know and be a part of. If you don't engrave firearms....who cares come please and enjoy the camaraderie. We love engravers of all kinds and while we are not set up administratively to give the same attention to other forms of engraving it is appreciated and welcomed and you will find a lot of it on tables.

For many years we were exhibiting with the gunmakers guild and the show rules prohibited us from opening it up to other forms of engraving. Now that we are in charge we are in a controlled and measured way opening up the show and the guild. Be excited, be grateful, be patient. Join the guild, come to the show and be a participant.

Well said Lee, Thanks for that!

SamW · Aug 30, 2016

Cringe...cringe...cringe!!!!

Riflesmith · Sep 3, 2016

Is it even possible to define "Master"? Or is "Master" an opinion of the mind much like "professional" or "expert"? Being as the quality and appeal of art is circumspect to those who view it wouldn't those who view said artwork have their own opinion.
The problem lies in if you define "master" or "professional" or "expert" you then open the door to government regulation of just who can produce such are and what art they are allowed to produce....and said convention is dangerous to Liberty. Look at the plumbing and electrical unions who regulate who can work and what tasks they are allowed to do and we now have governmental pluming and electrical codes.
JMHO

tdelewis · Sep 3, 2016

You can consider yourself a master if those who are master artist call you by that title. It is great compliment and one should not confer it on themselves.

Eugene Carkoski · Sep 3, 2016

if you are from out of town your an expert, if you have an axcent and you are from out of town you are a professional, if you can walk the walk and do the job you are a master. :graver:

Phil Coggan · Sep 3, 2016

sam said:
sam welch is a master engraver

::::snicker::::

no doubt about that sam!

Lee · Sep 3, 2016

.....and Sam W. is working on a rifle that is way beyond outstanding. No pressure Sam.:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

SamW · Sep 4, 2016

Blush, cringe, blush, cringe cringe....

one must really be careful what one says around you folks!!

Reminds me of a friend of mine in Vegas...I happened to mention how I was enjoying some ground habanero pepper given to me and the next thing I know a one pound package of the stuff shows up at my door. I guess I will never learn!

As for the rifle Lee mentioned (a '73 Win), one side plate was in a recent The Engraver and the other will be in a future issue and if I ever finish the piece the rest of it will be in The Engraver also. The theme is a tribute to the magnificent art of Karl Bodmer from his trip up the Missouri River in 1833-34 and is being done as much as a practice plate/learning process as a tribute. At 650 hours I think I am about half way done.

Hope to see a lot of you folks in Vegas!!!

diandwill · Sep 7, 2016

Riflesmith said:
Is it even possible to define "Master"? Or is "Master" an opinion of the mind much like "professional" or "expert"? Being as the quality and appeal of art is circumspect to those who view it wouldn't those who view said artwork have their own opinion.
The problem lies in if you define "master" or "professional" or "expert" you then open the door to government regulation of just who can produce such are and what art they are allowed to produce....and said convention is dangerous to Liberty. Look at the plumbing and electrical unions who regulate who can work and what tasks they are allowed to do and we now have governmental pluming and electrical codes.
JMHO

The European (older) system of apprentice, journeyman and master works really well. It is just hard to apply to todays society, both in Europe and here.. It is hard to find anybody that is willing to work for room and board for several years, as an apprentice, while learning the trade. Once learned, to the point of being competent to accomplish most, if not all, tasks, the level of journeyman would be gained, allowing one to open their own shop etc. A master was one qualified to have apprentices and journeymen in his/her shop. Now it may require being judged by others to gain that status. At least that is my understanding of how the structure was/is.

There have been many advantages to having trade unions, especially in the past. I have never been in one, largely because of the clout thrown around by many of the members. I do think that, especially in the electrical, plumbing and carpentry trades, codes that determine the minimum acceptable quality of work is a good thing. It prevents fires, backed up waste systems and buildings falling down.

If an individual believes that that regulation infringes on their personal liberty, there are still many areas that a person can build their own place with little or no oversight.

Marcus Hunt · Sep 7, 2016

I was apprenticed to my father for Â£15 a week pocket money in the beginning. As I started to do stuff that I could sell like engraving screws, unlike the old Master, he would let me keep my own money. In the old days that wouldn't of happened. This would have been the payment to the master for training you.

I classified myself as a reasonable engraver for many, many years. I'd show my dad stuff I'd done occasionally and he'd look at it and say "If you just did this," or "If you'd just done that and put a cut here, or there, that would improve it." One day, after about 20 odd years in the engraving game I showed him a gun I'd worked on and he just sat back nodding looking at it. He smiled and handed it back to me with the words "That's good!" and it was only then that I felt I'd actually made it to the master stage of our craft. Finally, I'd produced something that my Master, one of the top gun engravers in the world, could find nothing to criticise. I can't tell you what a feeling that was!

mvangle · Sep 7, 2016

I'm sure that was a very proud moment for your father also.

Sam · Sep 7, 2016

That's a great story Marcus!

bswezey · Sep 7, 2016

That is an excellent story....Such a proud moment.

It reminds me of a video I watched of an old bladesmith. He was amazing in the video. He would hand forge and hammer pocket knife blades and made it look incredibly easy.

He talked about how he started out as an apprentice and for the first year the only thing he was allowed to do was tend to the fire and watch the masters do their work. Only then after the year had passed was he allowed to take on minimal tasks in the process. And that's just how it was.

We are all so impatient now to learn things quickly (myself included). Maybe it would be better to perceive ourselves as perpetual apprentices. Always open to learning .

Sam · Sep 7, 2016

bswezey said:
Maybe it would be better to perceive ourselves as perpetual apprentices. Always open to learning .

Most of the craftsmen/women I know have an open mind and are receptive to new ideas. When ego gets in the way and we take ourselves too seriously and think we know know all there is to know, we close our minds to many great things. And we're not much fun to be around, either!

Bluetickhound · Sep 7, 2016

Reminds me of a favorite bit of advice.. "Beware of people who go around bragging about how great they are. A lion will never have to tell you he's a lion"....

Ed Westerly · Sep 7, 2016

I was once told that "professional" means you get paid for what you do. I don't think it denotes any great ability, just that you can get others to put out money for you to do it. That's why I like that FEGA has gone to the master title. It says that you know what you are doing. Unfortunately, to some it means you know all there is to know, and that is almost always a very bad thing to assume!

Lee · Sep 8, 2016

My martial arts instructor told me a black belt does not mean you have arrived but have mastered the basics enough to begin learning. Seems to apply to my engraving experience

Big-Un · Sep 8, 2016

Lee said:
My martial arts instructor told me a black belt does not mean you have arrived but have mastered the basics enough to begin learning. Seems to apply to my engraving experience

Same here Lee. got to Nidan and am still learning after almost 50 years. as long as we're breathing we SHOULD be learning.

Bill

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