Master engraver?

Dani Girl · Aug 28, 2016

Mmmm... old system made sense to me

Knife making still runs that way. You join the guild... your work is judged by your peers. If you are good enough you can be a journeyman and maybe one day a master.

There is even an Australian knife makers guild which I hope to join in the new year.

I think engraving will have come a long way before I see anything like that in Australia for engravers.

jerrywh · Aug 28, 2016

Send her a couple copies of the Engraver magazine. She might change her mind.

Brian Marshall · Aug 28, 2016

There was no group of peers to be judged by 40+ years ago... FEGA did not exist then.

And when it began, it was exclusively organized by and for hand engravers who engraved guns for a living.

It has only opened up a bit the past few years - and that was because of an impending threat by Jason Marchiafava to start up an open guild.

Look at the name - "Firearms Engravers of America"... perhaps it is time to think about adopting one that it is a little more in keeping with the direction it is taking? And now it is International - not just "of America"...

By the time that it offered up an olive branch to engravers of other religions, I had long since worked things out for myself.

In what I do for a living - having a certificate, or belonging to organizations wouldn't have and still wouldn't affect my bottom line.

Out there in the real world, totaling up all the items than can be engraved and ARE engraved these days - firearms are in the minority.

Yes, I do engrave a few firearms, but they have never been an important percentage of my own income...

And yes, I do belong to several organizations, including FEGA - and benefit from them personally in other ways...

Brian

Bluetickhound · Aug 28, 2016

If that kid ever stumbled onto this site and reads this thread she'll NEED one of her etched glass pot pipes to settle down!!!

Marcus Hunt · Aug 28, 2016

You know what? I don't think she actually understands what being a master engraver is. If you want to see a master glass engraver who uses the old copper wheel method and gets results which can only be said to be second to none check out Neil Oliver's website. However, that being said, I like her stuff; it's quirky and different. Master engraver? Nah! Glass engraver and artist, yes! If I were her, I'd drop the "master" title, and just go with the artist thing.

Andrew Biggs · Aug 28, 2016

It has only opened up a bit the past few years - and that was because of an impending threat by Jason Marchiafava to start up an open guild.

That is completely wrong, Brian…………….And frankly, I’m sick of hearing it from you and you continually using Jason’s name to perpetuate the myth at every opportunity you get. And I’m sure he doesn’t like his name bandied around like this either. Your conspiracy theories are tiresome.

I just happened to be the director in charge of the Masters program at the time, and still doing the job.

The changes were suggested by me at the time in full consultation with the BOD of the day and were implemented once ratified at the general meeting by all the members present. We made a couple of key changes at the time. The first was to do away with “ actively seeking work from clients". This opened the door for non professionals to go for their Masters certification.

The second feature was to offer an amnesty to the certified professionals that had let their dues slip over several years. I personally notified as many members as I could track down including Jason. By doing this we brought back a handful of ex-members into the fold. The reality was that the back-dues were getting quite substantial and was a hinderance to the process.

Since then other changes have been implemented by myself and the BOD. This was, and still is, all part of the evolving process of the Masters program.................and FEGA in general!!!!!!

Nothing has ever been implemented because of any perceived threat of anything, ever. And starting up another Guild was never seen as a threat to FEGA. It was Jason’s thing and didn’t pan out at the time for whatever reasons.

So Brian, like the song says…………….Let it go, let it go.

Cheers
Andrew

Brian Marshall · Aug 28, 2016

OK Andrew, thy will be done...

Where are the countless times I mentioned that? And why on earth would it be such a sore spot with you of all people?

It happened. I was part of it. I have the correspondece from that time frame should you wish to see it posted with some of the names redacted.

It's over, and it went the way that it did.

If you wish to erase history - be my guest, you are the one in a position to do so... means nothing to me, would've meant very little more to me had it turned out differently. History has been rewritten since the beginning of time.

B.

Perhaps it was all a coincidence that these things happened at around the same time? Sure didn't feel like it to me. I have been wrong before. I think the last time was back in 1982?

Marcus Hunt · Aug 28, 2016

Well, that is very interesting Andrew. I must admit, I have let my FEGA membership slip but I'm going to reinstate it. I can remember being a bit upset by the previous criteria required to be a FEGA Master Engraver which required engraved guns to be brought to the show. That meant International Members could basically never attain the title FEGA Master even though they diligently payed their dues. That is why I actually supported Jason's endeavours to start an open guild but, as we know, it didn't even get off the ground.

Now however, and I'm willing to bet a lot of it is through yours and Barry's efforts, I see that those of us from outside of the US can now apply for the title. Personally, I think although FEGA has its history with firearms engraving, it is only right that they can accredit engravers from other fields because, as we know, guns are such a small niche in what is quite a large field. If FEGA have the foresight to encompass these other fields in their accreditation scheme they really have raised the bar tremendously and could possibly become 'the world standard' and this would be even more so if the judging panel eventually includes master engravers from overseas too. Well done you, for all your efforts and for bringing this up because until I read your post, I felt excluded to a degree from FEGA but will be renewing my membership forthwith.

atexascowboy2011 · Aug 28, 2016

Andrew, are you being a snit ?
In his post above Brain states that he IS a member of FEGA.
I checked the roster twice and failed to find his name which means that either you removed it or ...

Andrew Biggs · Aug 28, 2016

Brian

It’s a sore point with me because I’m sick of the regurgitation of all the conspiracy theories of the day and by implication that I or the BOD of the day were somehow involved in it. The reason for this is that I know how untrue your innuendo is!!!!

I have no idea what you were a part of and I have no wish to see your correspondence as I have enough of my own and far better things to deal with. It’s done and dusted as far as I’m concerned.

And I resent the implication that somehow I am rewriting or erasing history. I am telling you what happened at the FEGA end of things. Those are the facts I deal with. Not other peoples silly conspiracy theories perpetuated by people that just can’t let it go.

If you wish to put time stamps on it and connect the dots and end up with completely the wrong end of the stick, then that is your prerogative…………Just leave me, FEGA and Jason out of it.

Brian Marshall · Aug 28, 2016

Guess I have to go find my membership card and post it?

Andrew, none of this is important anymore... I simply stated MY experience and MY outlook. As did Marcus. And Jason was part of it.

Neither of us being on the BOD, nor wearing your shoes - we can't know how it appeared to you.

We are allowed to state how it looked and felt to us at the time it occured. Just as you are...

Brian

Andrew Biggs · Aug 28, 2016

Hi Marcus

Yes, a lot has changed over the years.

Indeed we do now have International members that can become FEGA Master Engravers. That was Barry’s idea that was implemented a couple of years ago. Bringing the guns to the show was always a hinderance for international members and is getting tougher with each passing year. So now it can be done by e-mail. Here is the link for you http://fega.com/about/MasterEngraverApplication.pdf

The firearms engraving is a tough one because it is the whole reason for FEGA’s inception. On one hand there is the argument that the Masters have to be judged on something so firearms is as good as anything. Plus it’s historical for FEGA to do so in many ways. Sticking to our knitting, if you like.

The other side of the argument is that there are other disciplines out there like knife/jewellery engraving that deserve recognition as well. So why not open it up, after all, it is all engraving.

But hey, all things change eventually and who knows what will happen in the future. I like to think that the Guild is an evolving process and will keep doing so long after I’m gone.

To a large extent this is already happening. The Engraver magazine covers anything and everything engraving, not just firearms. The Las Vegas show has a mix of everything from firearms engraving to jewellery engraving and custom rifles depending on what the members and guests do.

The tricky bit is to keep a balancing act and making sure that whatever is implemented is for the benefit of the Guild and the membership is happy with it.

Cheers
Andrew

Sam · Aug 28, 2016

atexascowboy2011 said:
Andrew, are you being a snit ?

Now this isn't going to happen in my forum :no:

Marcus Hunt · Aug 28, 2016

Well, even though I'm not at the pointy end I remember going with my dad to our first Grand Masters weekend (were you at that one Andrew or at the one when he was going to teach?) and I remember there was some unsettling conversations going on at that time that I didn't really understand but several people were very upset about. But it is history now, and hopefully the lessons have been learned and we can move on to a better future. I'm the same as you Brian, accreditation would do nothing for me business wise BUT, you know what? To have a group of my peers actually say "We think your work IS worthy of the title 'Master Engraver'," would actually mean a lot to me as I have spent my whole working life in this field and actually have no formal recognition of the fact. I'd be a bit ****ed off though if I didn't make the grade, LOL! Do I NEED certification, no of course not, my work speaks for itself I'd like to think. Would I LIKE accreditation by other Master Engravers? Tbh, yes, I would!

Andrew Biggs · Aug 28, 2016

Andrew, are you being a snit ?
In his post above Brain states that he IS a member of FEGA.
I checked the roster twice and failed to find his name which means that either you removed it or ...

Yes, Brian is a member of FEGA. He has been for a very long time as far as I'm aware.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the roster thing...........what are you suggesting??

Andrew Biggs · Aug 28, 2016

Hi Marcus

I was at the one where Ken taught the class........What a great time that was. I learnt so much even though I wasn't in the actual class.

I still remember being at one of the local restaurants and you asking us to find the owl on the greenback. From memory no one found it and you had to point it out to us.

Cheers
Andrew

Sam · Aug 28, 2016

Marcus, I haven't visited your site in quite awhile and I've missed many beautiful things you've engraved. Your certainly are a Master in my eyes.

Marcus Hunt · Aug 28, 2016

Andrew, you are so right about FEGA not losing touch with its history. That is really important, but it is good if it can grow to take on board other types of metal engraving too (even I think the line has to be drawn somewhere, LOL) and if that happens, it's all to the well and good in my book. But roots are important.

Oh, and btw, in that restaurant I remember you trying to order green beans and the waitress looking at you as if you were from another planet as she couldn't understand your accent.

Thanks Sam, that means a lot my friend.

Bluetickhound · Aug 28, 2016

Off topic I know, but what kind of mando is that, Marcus? I have built a couple and am currently, ever so slowly, working on an H5 mandola whenever the spirit moves me...

Marcus Hunt · Aug 28, 2016

Bluetickhound said:
Off topic I know, but what kind of mando is that, Marcus? I have built a couple and am currently, ever so slowly, working on an H5 mandola whenever the spirit moves me...

It was an Eastman; an absolutely brilliant instrument for the price point. It sounded out of this world but the finish wasn't as good as the American made stuff but for the money there was nothing in the same ball park. I sold it to put the money into my Gibson Songwriter guitar, which I have never regretted but I'm thinking of getting another mandolin soon.

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