Looking for help with gravers

Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
6
Location
Hayden, Alabama
I've been doing blacksmith and bladesmith work for the last 5 or so years and have recently started talking to people about commisioned pieces. Recently I had someone ask for a pipe tomahawk with some small amount of engraving and inlay which is where my problem is.

I know I tried in the past to make a graver using a tutorial online and failed miserably so I thought since I have a potential sale here I need to do it right. I've tried to find pre made gravers that were ready to go right out of the box but it seems like they don't make them. That said I'd really appreciate any suggestions as to the easiest way to get some. I also don't really know which gravers I'll need.

I'm sorry I can't provide all the details needed to assist me but I can tell you what the want if that'll help any. There is talk of a large triquetra on both sides of the bit and on one side of the eye a tree of life and a turtle on the other. Around the turtle will probably be some kind of scrolls to make it look a little more even with the tree of life.

I know I'll need a flat chisel, an onglette and I'm thinking a square. I'm not sure if that's all I'll need or not but would definitely appreciate someone setting me straight here.

I think I've rambled enough for now. If anyone has any questions please don't hesitate to ask me. I look forward to your replies.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
6
Location
Hayden, Alabama
As of when I'm writing this post there has been 72 views and not even one suggestion. That makes me wonder did I not give enough information? Was my intentions not clear? I'd really appreciate any help you guys can give me. If I can't find the info I need I'll probably lose the commission unless I can talk them into an etching which isn't nearly as nice. So please guys give a little help, just point me in the right direction.
 

tsterling

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May 20, 2007
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NW Florida, USA
Hi Michael,

I think the reason nobody is answering is they really don't know where to start. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your questions seem to indicate you know very little about engraving.

If that's true, then you're biting off an incredibly big job. Even a minimal amount of engraving (not including inlay) will require a steep learning curve and a lot of practice.

Here's a link to a starter tutorial I created designed so knifemakers could give it a try without huge expense: http://sterlingsculptures.com/wp/?page_id=4376

Read through that and perhaps restate your case and questions?

Best of luck,

Tom
 
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Andrew Biggs

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Christchurch, New Zealand
As far as I’m aware you can’t buy pre-sharpened gravers. And even if you could, then they wouldn’t be of much help to you as within 5 minutes you will probably break the tip and need to resharpen.

So what to do?………. I’m assuming by a pipe tomahawk you want a primitive style in keeping with the times of the piece you have replicated.

You have two choices. Commission someone to do it properly from the get go. Or do it yourself in which case I wouldn’t even think about touching your tomahawk with a graver for some months.

The graver is easy. But a GRS Glensteel square graver. Don’t even think about carbide at this stage because it shatters to easily for a beginner. Glensteel HSS gravers are far more forgiving.

Then you have to learn how to sharpen it. Templates can help you overcome that rather quickly or you can hand sharpen. I think Sam has posted a tutorial showing how to sharpen a 90 degree sqaure graver using a stone and a piece of metal rod.

Then you need a driving force to get the graver to cut through the metal. This can be your arm, a hammer or pneumatics. You can buy a chasing hammer and graver handle via GRS or you can make your own.

Then you need to learn how to control it all and start cutting a half way decent line that doesn’t look like a butchers mess.

And on it goes………..all is doable but is going to cost you very little in money but take a lot of your time and practice before you can even think about cutting into a commissioned job.

Inlay……..now you are increasing your learning curve considerably. It’s simple enough with hammer, chisel, flat graver of the correct size and a small undercutting tool shaped like a screw flat screwdriver. But first you must learn to control the tools which require time effort and lots of practice.

A book that I would highly recommend is Engraving Historic Firearms by John Shippers. He will show you the basic tools you will need, how to sharpen and the technique of using them. None of it particulary expensive. The book is available at this link http://www.fega.com/prodserv/Books1.asp It’s not cheap but well worth every penny.

So good luck with your journey but be warned. Engraving can be extremely addictive. :)

Cheers
Andrew
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
6
Location
Hayden, Alabama
Hi Michael,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your questions seem to indicate you know very little about engraving.

You're spot on, I have no 'real' experience or knowledge. I've used those tiny flat screwdrivers (like you use on eye glasses and toys) with a sharpened edge like a small chisel. I used them on small wood projects when I was younger, they weren't great but they did what I needed. I'm headed over to the link you gave soon as I get done with this reply, thanks for sharing it.

Andrew, I'm sure I'd break the points more than anyone here ever has. I was just thinking if I had them in a ready for working state when I got them I'd see what I messed up when I tried makin my own and I could take pictures showing the edges I needed to restore once I did break them.

I had planned on using a small chasing hammer with the chisels. I'm doubtful it'll be worth it for me to buy an air powered setup.
 
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atexascowboy2011

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Try to get in touch with Fred Marrinan who is in Albany ,Georgia, 255 miles from you. Fred is on this site so PM him and see if you can spend a day or two with him.
Also I think RM Green is in Al.
Or spend a week at Johny Weyerts, Alpine, Tx. or GRS, Emporia, Kansas.
Wilson Capron of Christoval, Tx. also puts on classes.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
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Location
Hayden, Alabama
Thanks for those suggestions cowboy, I'll look those people up.

Unfortunately I cannot take off from work and go on a trip like that right now since I have to keep paying bills. Paycheck to paycheck is my life right now.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
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Location
Hayden, Alabama
As admin has the time will you please delete me and my content? It has come to my attention that this place isn't somewhere I belong since I'm not a 'professional engraver' instead being just a 'craftsman' who obviously isn't capable of learning something like this to improve his work.
 

Mike_Morgan

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Mar 17, 2016
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Spencerport, NY
As admin has the time will you please delete me and my content? It has come to my attention that this place isn't somewhere I belong since I'm not a 'professional engraver' instead being just a 'craftsman' who obviously isn't capable of learning something like this to improve his work.

You know, I saw several of the members here offering you advice on how to approach this mission you're on, and I didn't really see anything that should have given you the impression that your questions were not welcome here, or that advice was not available to you based on the fact that you're not a pro.

I'm not a pro, in fact, I'm a beginner... and I've asked for and received plenty of advice here FROM the pros. Perhaps you're not getting the answers you expected, or you didn't like what they were telling you, but you should stick around and learn from this group if you actually want to learn to engrave. There probably isn't a better place on the planet to gather up the specific knowledge that is available right here on this forum.
 

monk

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As admin has the time will you please delete me and my content? It has come to my attention that this place isn't somewhere I belong since I'm not a 'professional engraver' instead being just a 'craftsman' who obviously isn't capable of learning something like this to improve his work.

if you're interested in engraving, well, this is a good place. moreso if you want to learn how to do it yerself. this forum is for all engraving pursuits, pro or hobby.
 

Bluetickhound

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Aug 4, 2016
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Atlanta Ga
I just joined the site today... This is actually my first post and I have already gleaned a ton of info out of this one thread. I am not even a beginner yet but am in the process of researching what I really need (and don't need... Yet!!) to get started. The YouTube videos (I see several familiar names here) are very inspiring but until I get some basic equipment and put graver to metal I won't know what I don't know, if that makes sense... I'll be picking up the book mentioned earlier and already have Mr. Meek's book coming as well as a set of videos from Sam. Looking forward to getting to know you all and I PROMISE not to start any "what's the best (xxxxxx) for newbies" threads!! The search function is really handy if folks will just use it!

Cheers!
Blue.
 
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