Help, please: Graver helper machine

I'm new this enraving, so new infact, I've barely even tried it.
I'm a miniaturist cabinet maker specialising in marquetry, you can look me up on a google search..Chris malcomson miniatures..
I'm currently working on a new technique called Boulle work..This is tortoishell and brass inlay.
I've made some initial experiments which have worked well but I'd like to engrave the brass inlay to give extra definition.
I bought a set of hand gravers but got knowhere.
I then thought a pneumatic machine. As the title of my thread says, I bought a graver helper machine from China..
I've just now unwrapped it, no instructions! I have no idea how it works or how to set it up?

I think I've broken my own rule, which is to check out everything you buy on forums etc...

I'm really keen to learn this technique but have no idea where to begin and what tools I need. Help!!!!!
Buying the professional Lindsey machine will have to wait until next year depending on my progress.

The graver helper is a poor quality copy of the GraverMax from GRS tools. The machine itself is useless without an air compressor as the air source. You may find some help by looking up the instruction manual for the old Gravermax. My advice would be to return it if possible and try and find an older GRS unit on ebay like the early Gravermax or Gravermate. Or go to GRS tools online and look at the new systems. The Graversmith is their lowest price model and will cover 99.9% of the functions required of a pneumatic engraver.
Good luck.
I'd also suggest you go to the tips section of the forum and you'll find all the information you could digest.

Junk. Get your money back if you can.

That said, the only instructions you can expect would be how to hook it up and turn it on. I don't know of any pneumatic system that comes with how-to-engrave instructions, if that's what you were referring to.

Welcome to the Cafe!

if that machine is heavy enough, you have a hi-tech doorstop ! i wouldn't expect consistent results with it. nor would i expect much in the way of longevity. for your sake, i hope i'm wrong.

Download the manual for the GraverMax at GRStools.com -- http://www.grstools.com/PDF/004-041_MaxMate.pdf

You will find in the manual a caution about NOT running the GraverMax machine at all without an air source connected (40psi minimum up to 120psi maximum).

The machine itself is comprised of an electric motor that spins the ported barrel of a "rotating valve" which floats on a cushion of compressed air. When the ports align, puffs of compressed air find their way to the hand-piece, which is simply a pneumatic jackhammer driven by those puffs of air.

Fluid of any kind in the system is a very bad thing so a coalescing filter in the outside compressor line is mandatory with oil lubricated compressors.

Hope that helps...

Interested in the Graver Helper

Would love to find a used Gravermax in a reasonable price range. I don't want to have to mortgage the farm for one piece of machine. That being said, I have looked and looked on Ebay for months and never found a used Gravermax.
Also my question is if this company has sold many than why can I not find a review or any used ones for sale. Someone is working this machine from China. Don't plan on doing anything fancy just need some help since I have a little arthritis in the hands. But, sure would like to talk to someone that has used the Graver Helper

lynn carmon said:

Would love to find a used Gravermax in a reasonable price range. I don't want to have to mortgage the farm for one piece of machine. That being said, I have looked and looked on Ebay for months and never found a used Gravermax.
Also my question is if this company has sold many than why can I not find a review or any used ones for sale. Someone is working this machine from China. Don't plan on doing anything fancy just need some help since I have a little arthritis in the hands. But, sure would like to talk to someone that has used the Graver Helper

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Lynn I feel you frustration, well I am one that bought a Graver Helper from Amazon, unboxed it and set it up, not that difficult, there was something about that machine that was a joke, I could not get it to carve a grove in a piece of aluminum, I boxed it up and posted on Ebay, I would have sent it back to amazon but my returns are a little high at the time, and I then went with a pro unit, I was very disappointed in the Graver Helper. I am finding other than the old hammer and push, if you want to buy a car, don't buy a skateboard.
I have been on this site for a very short while, the Graver Max machines do show up now and then. keep looking........

All used GRS machines from the Gravermax classic to modern machines are in demand and sell quickly. You'll find one when someone upgrades or retires.

You've been given solid advice on the Chinese knockoff. You're throwing money in the trash if you buy one.

It is frustrating reading posts like this. I have lost count of the number of times on this forum that it's been said that Graver Helper/Graver Mate is Chinese junk. Why don't people do a bit of research on the forum before paying out their hard earned on rubbish? BUY CHEAP, PAY TWICE! A very basic air-assist system (without compressor) can be had for under $900 (Lindsay Artisan or GRS Graver Smith). These are entry level systems but look at it this way you've probably spent $300-$400 on junk that won't do the job properly and now, if you can find a secondhand GraverMax it's probably going to cost only a couple of hundred bucks less than a new entry level system so in fact, unless you can get your money back, you'll end up spending more than a new entry level system costs than if you'd bought a genuine secondhand system in the first place, duh!

John Ruskin said this around 150 years ago -

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

Buy American. J.J.

Marcus Hunt said:

John Ruskin said this around 150 years ago -

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

Click to expand...

With that, I read a quote on a feed store wall: "For a very fair price, you can buy good quality oats that go into a Horse, BUT for a much lesser price, you can buy the oats that come out of the horse"

Boulle marquetry by a woodworker

Hi,

I am a woodworker in Western Australia and like you have embarked on my first boulle work for a set of boxes. My box panels have brass, pewter, faux tortoise shell, and wood veneer in them.

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I have also purchased a cheap and cheerful Chinese machine to do the engraving. Probably like you I will never use it again after this project, so I wasn't going down the GraverMax of Air Graver route. I had also tried hand engraving - no pneumatic assistance - too hard.

I have found some useful info in YouTube videos by Shaun Hughes, looking at, and using the cheap and cheerful Chinese things. I've also looked at Steve Lindsays www.engravingschool.com RE the marquetry I've also looked extensively on Lumberjocks that has links to the American School of French marquetry and the Canadian School of French Marquetry. You can also find some of my work on Lumberjocks - look for 'madburg'

I'm currently waiting for a voltage controller to put in to my Chinese thing to help with speed adjustment before I start some practice plates. The adjustment of the machine is trial and error, but there is info on similar machines on the web.

I've decide that what 'we' would be doing with boulle engraving, is mainly 'shading' and 'detail' work, as our leaf/scroll shapes are already defined - well mine are! So not much outline work to do, just filling in the detail. Looking at original boulle work the extent of the shading is quite minimal compared to the detail that goes into the knife/gun engraving/shading that we see on the main websites.

Its taken me 6 months to get this far - making a Chevalat for cutting out the marquetry, cutting the panels, gluing up the panels, sanding them. I'm now at the engraving stage!!!

Happy to share how I go with you.

Your designs and craftsmanship are beautiful. Congratulations on the skill you have achieved. You might contact Danigirl from NSW about some collaborations. She might be interested. She to is a Fine artist and engraver. Use the search function on the LEFT side of the masthead as it will search the whole site then click her name to reach her by private contact.

Thanks Fred. Thought your Albany SW, GA was a typo and you were in Albany in the South West of Western Australia - which would have been quite close to me!!

While I strongly agree with what Sam, Marcus and other experienced engravers have said about the Chinese knock-off systems, there is an inexpensive tool that is often overlooked. For under $300.US you can buy a MagnaGraver II from the NgraveR Company. It is not pneumatic, rather it operates on a flex shaft from a Fordom type motor. The MagnaGraver is a high quality, American made tool that is reliable and operates as intended. After working H&C for some time I bought a MagnaGraver and used it for a few years before going to the Gravermeister. My brother, Carl also used the MagnaGraver, He didn't care for the Gravermeister so he used his MagnaGraver for about 20 years before getting a GraverMax, then eventually moving to Lindsay tools. The impacts of the MagnaGraver are more like H&C work. The only down side is getting used to the flex shaft but it is no big deal. Here is a link to NgraveR: http://www.ngraver.com/engrave.htm

There is also an option to build your own Engraving machine,it will cost you under 100 usd but it will take time to receive all ordered parts.
Its origins as far as i know comes from Russia but British coin carver Shaun Hughes has re-designed it a bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdT7hMV_cfo&t=133s

Ihave made exact same myself and if you understand basics of how it should work you can easily make it yourself . It will take time to customize it to your needs but it will be good thing to start for first months.
I have to say that its not
That powerful but i was amazed how well it performed . It has payed back in no time and helped me to save myself from terrible slipping injuries i got from push gravers.
Now after frustrating months of learning hand engraving i have developed great passion for the art and i love how challenging it is so i will continue without a doubt and get myself more serious tools.
I also made a mistake when i purchased ball vise from China and i wrote a big thread in this forum where i mentioned all the problems it had and why not to buy it.
But as Mechanical Engineer i fixed few things and it has served its purpose quite well but as i said now when i know that i want to continue my learning journey in hand engraving i can upgrade all of my tools with profit i made from my first engraved coins and pendants.

Thanks Rstripnieks and Roger. I did do my research and saw all the no, no's but still decided on the Chinese rip off in terms of price, and my limited intended use. But hey if I get hooked like Rstripnieks (thanks for your insights) then I might go up market. Though I do like my wood work, and doubt I will.

But going back to the original post and the Boulle marquetry aspect of the thread.......... You can see from my pictures in the post above what I am engraving. Metal less than 1mm thick, also faux tortoise shell (Plastic), in quite large panels, compared to most fine work.

The box tops are around A4 paper size, so 300mm x 200mm or 12 inches x 9 inches. Any how I have a few questions for you experienced guys.

1. How do I finish the panels prior to doing the engraving. Yes I sand it, but bearing in mind there is wood included in the panels, can any one give me clues to the process? - I've sealed the wood with polyurethane varnish and sanded it down, I've filled gaps in the marquetry and sanded down again as far as 1200 grit. Unfortunately the dust from the pewter and brass has contaminated the wood boarders despite sealing the wood to stop this happening. But I can selectively sanded these bits again to get the colour back. So what grit do you suggest I go down to? 2000? I can't really use wet and dry due to the wood. What about an orbital sander?

2. I said earlier that I'm really only doing detail/shading work as the outlines of most of my leafs and foliage are all ready defined. So what sort of graver point do you suggest? Can you point me to any examples of simple shading?

3. I've made up a turn table using a 'Party Susan' bearing to hold my large panels. Any suggestions on this front?

4. I've got an optivisor that I use for my marquetry. What magnification do you suggest for the engraving shading/detail work 3.5X or 5X?

5. Once engraved - a long way off I think ......... and the engraving is filled with black paint/lacquer, or possibly 'gold' dust on the black wood and faux tortoise shell, what do you suggest I finish the panels with? I'm thinking of coats of spray on or wipe on Polyurethane, rubbed down with 1200 - may be finer - what do you think?

6. Any other suggests, tips ideas??

Thanks in anticipation of your help.

I dont think they have optivisor with 5x magnification, i used 3,5 and it was not good for my back at all and focus distance is very small but it may work for you at the beginning as it serves well to many other engravers . Microscope made my engraving way more comfortable but use what works best for you.

Thanks for this. Yes mines 3.5x and 10 x, but the 10x is too close for comfort as you say. I've seen a thread where it suggests lengthening the sides of the visor which in lengthens the focal length, so moving your head back. Also one where a set of loupes are mounted on a fixed stand, bit like a microscope. I'll see how I go.