International engraving system manufacturers: GRS, Lindsay, Enset, who else??

SuperStudent · May 6, 2016

From my student perspective, it looks like there are three American pneumatic engraving system manufacturers: GRS, Enset, Lindsay. Is there any other other?

Internationally, what systems do people use? Surely, there is engraving being done in Japan and Chile and all over Europe. Where do they buy their equipment? What pneumatic engraving system manufacturers are in Europe, Asia, and elsewhere? Or, are the big 3 American companies equipping the whole world?

Sam · May 6, 2016

I think the three you mentioned are supplying the world market. There are Chinese and Turkish knock-offs out there, but the quality has not proven to be good. If there are other manufacturers of pneumatic engraving systems I've not heard of them.

Ron Spokovich · May 6, 2016

Decades ago, I'd heard of a system called a 'Greenie', or similar, possibly made in Germany. An old timer I knew, an engraver, told me of it but may never have used it. He engraved out of a shop of engravers in Pittsburgh, and his surname was Zygmunt. There are high caliber machines in Europe, but most don't advertise, such as lathes, mills, and other things, due to the high cost and shipping. Maybe engraving items are the same? It might be worth time spent doing some Internet research, but no doubt the systems mentioned may dominate the market.

Roger Bleile · May 6, 2016

I know quite a few engravers in Europe and of the few who use pneumatic systems, they all use one of the three mentioned above. Of those, GRS is the most popular because they send representatives to jewelry shows around the world to demonstrate their products. Enset also demonstrates at Baselworld. GRS also has a distributor in Germany.

Where in the world are you located?

SuperStudent · May 7, 2016

Thank you for the replies.
I'm in the US, but often visit, live, and work in Europe, and was wondering about what companies might exist there or elsewhere. I've just been shocked by the extremely high startup cost of engraving (engraving system, microscope, compressor, microscope stand, sharpening system), and hoping some non-American companies might charge more reasonable prices.
For new stuff, it looks like a complete setup can easily be $4000+. I'm into metalwork, too, and for the same amount, I can fairly well equip a workshop with welding machines, drill press, cutting tools, sanders...a whole bunch of power tools. It seems crazy that engraving systems, which, seem very simple, low-tech, and small, can be $1000-$3000, compressor not included, and yet you can go to Home Depot and get quality, brand name, bigger and more complex power tools in the low $hundreds.

From the answers here, it looks like the reason is that the engraving world is very small, that the biggest market is the US, and that, with only three manufacturers, they can (and maybe must, to stay in business with their low volume) charge what they want. I was hoping to get an answer that engraving is popular all over the world and that there are Japanese or German companies selling fancy pneumatic engraving systems for $500. My bubble has been burst.

atexascowboy2011 · May 7, 2016

Engraving IS alive and well overseas !And no, you DO NOT have to hock your first born to get started.
Look at the work of Weldon47, Phil Coggan's old work and many other Masters who started and still use the "Hammer and Chisel" to produce Masterpieces.
This is an extremely low cost way to enter the field.

The NRA has a summer program in Trinidad Colorado that teaches H&C for a very reasonable price.
Tool wise you can get started for under a Grand.
This is how most of the older older engravers started out, such as Weldon Lister, Jim Riggs, JJ Roberts and many others. These guys and gals still use this technique to produce timeless Works of Art.

dogcatcher · May 7, 2016

The cost is based on the limited amount of people that will buy them. It is cheaper by unit price to manufacturer a million units than it is to manufacture a thousand. Next move on to the sales and support staff, this is where as a business, they needs both the sales and support staff around everyday, not just when someone calls wanting to buy or having problems. These people cost the business owner for every minute they are on staff whether they are working or not.

Take the power drill at Home Depot, millions manufactured every year and sold without technical sales staffs. Cheaper costs, how technical is the sales staff at HD? Problems, it is a throwaway item as is most common tools.

That is part of the reasons they cost more.

There are cheaper options out there, the NGraver is one. The other is the Foredom Power Graver. Are they as good, I can't say, I use a hammer and chisel the cheapest version of engraving. But I have tried both the NGraver and Foredom. They both are an improvement over the hammer and chisel and the Foredom fits my price range at around $400.

Omar Haltam · May 7, 2016

quality tools demand a higher price, and when taken care of will last a lifetime
I for one as a jeweler and watch smith always buy the top tools, because they will give me years of trouble free service and not to mention satisfaction of using a quality tool in what ever line of work we do, be that metal working or engraving.
I wish you all the best

SuperStudent · May 7, 2016

Omar Haltam said:
quality tools demand a higher price, and when taken care of will last a lifetime ;

No one will argue with you on that point. I question, however when "higher price" for engraving tools means a full order of magnitude greater than what "higher price" means for other powered tools.

SuperStudent · May 7, 2016

atexascowboy2011 said:
Engraving IS alive and well overseas !

What countries in particular have serious engraving markets? Those are the places I'd like to look a little deeper.

atexascowboy2011 · May 7, 2016

England - Long rifles in particular.
Pretty much any developed nation that still has money.
Since you're just starting out I would advise you to engrave knives, IF looking for a niche market.
Buster Warenski built the fabulous "King Tut" dagger valued at 1 mil.
$50-250,000 is not unheard of today.
IN THE STATES !

Sam · May 7, 2016

Please don't be under the misconception that you must start with the latest and greatest pneumatic system and microscope. Many of us started with a few hand tools, Arkansas stone, and a lot of determination. Fabulous engraving is still created with these basic tools by many engravers around the world. There's no reason not to pursue this route.

The latest and greatest pneumatic systems, sharpening systems, microscopes, etc, can greatly reduce the learning curve and get you in the game very quickly. Good engraving tools have decades of R&D and refinements and are quality, highly specialized precision made tools that can't be compared to Home Depot drill presses.

Not everyone is in a position to purchase an expensive pneumatic setup, so if you want to really learn engraving, make up some chisels and buy a chasing hammer, learn to sharpen, roll up your sleeves and get to it.

And don't forget that the cheapest and most important tool in your entire kit will be the pencil. Artistic skills are what separate the great from the mundane, not how the chips get on the floor.

SuperStudent · May 8, 2016

atexascowboy2011 said:
England - Long rifles in particular.
Pretty much any developed nation that still has money.
Since you're just starting out I would advise you to engrave knives, IF looking for a niche market.
Buster Warenski built the fabulous "King Tut" dagger valued at 1 mil.
$50-250,000 is not unheard of today.
IN THE STATES !

Thank you, I like the knife suggestion!

SuperStudent · May 8, 2016

sam said:
Please don't be under the misconception that you must start with the latest and greatest pneumatic system and microscope. Many of us started with a few hand tools, Arkansas stone, and a lot of determination. Fabulous engraving is still created with these basic tools by many engravers around the world. There's no reason not to pursue this route.

The latest and greatest pneumatic systems, sharpening systems, microscopes, etc, can greatly reduce the learning curve and get you in the game very quickly. Good engraving tools have decades of R&D and refinements and are quality, highly specialized precision made tools that can't be compared to Home Depot drill presses.

Not everyone is in a position to purchase an expensive pneumatic setup, so if you want to really learn engraving, make up some chisels and buy a chasing hammer, learn to sharpen, roll up your sleeves and get to it.

And don't forget that the cheapest and most important tool in your entire kit will be the pencil. Artistic skills are what separate the great from the mundane, not how the chips get on the floor.

Good advice, thanks Sam. I keep thinking I need all this fancy stuff, but like you say, this can be done the old fashioned way for a whole lot less.
My drawing needs some real work, so maybe the first thing I should invest in are some drawing classes!

International engraving system manufacturers: GRS, Lindsay, Enset, who else??

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