Not another pricing thread.

T.G.III · Apr 4, 2016

Ok, so maybe it is.

I started reading at page 501 and have read until my eyes have bled, ( as of today I am on page 62 ) pricing is vague at best and seems to be dependent upon location, skill, and recognition.

I have been asked to engrave this layout on a piece of brass that is 2" x 6", my question is what is this amount of work worth, just need an average so that I am within the realm of reality with pricing.

I am a rank amateur with just enough skill to pull this off, but it wont be in a timely manner due to my lack of experience, I am the only guy in town that is doing this work and I don't want to get a negative reputation due to overcharging folks.

If your uncomfortable posting your thoughts publicly just drop me a pm, the wider range of answers will help me to set my pricing on a larger average

It will be cut just as you see it, really appreciate any help that you can provide

Customers artwork

Tim Wells · Apr 4, 2016

That letter style is pretty easy to cut and make it look consistent. As for reputation, I'd worry more about my quality of work rather than pricing.

If you do enough practice in lettering, that will give you an idea how long it will take you to cut say a 6 letter word in a given letter style. When you get in the groove, it goes a little quicker too which is what you'll be in doing that much lettering.

Just figure what you want to make per hour and go cut for instance, "I'll always love you, Heavens Doggie Door!" And time how long it took you to cut that much. Now you have something to go by. Just add up the letters that remain in that phrase and figure it based on what you already cut and that should be a guide.

Also, if you do this job you might ask the customer if you can add an apostrophe to Heavens. As it is written it should be Heaven's. Customer supplied art has pitfalls like that small one. Sometimes they want it with grammatical errors, so I just do what they say shaking my head all the while.

Your price should reflect the quality of your work.

T.G.III · Apr 4, 2016

I can ask about the punctuation, but as you know the customer is always right sometimes.

When I was approached for this work in February I was told "no worries on the time frame, "I'm in no hurry"" I figured perfect finished by Christmas should do it, she moved things up to needing it this month with less than 2 weeks notice, she has seen a couple of recent monograms that I cut and I think she got nervous about money. Gotta love dealing with the public.

I still have a day job dealing with the same public.:beatup:

I started reading posts back in October ( when I decided it was time for a lifestyle change and got serious about engraving ) and there is a wealth of information to anybody looking to learn this art, many of the worlds finest engravers freely have shared information enough to get the observant reader off and running with encouraging results.
My hats off to those that run this place and make all of this information available, thanks again.

diandwill · Apr 5, 2016

It is certainly an ambitious project. I would not find $10/letter out of line. There are a lot of places that a slip would mean a start over.

It also looks like it might be a perfect project to use a pantograph to do the layout and, once the lettering is all straight and in place, to do the actual cutting of the letters. The dog prints I would probably cut the outline, stipple for the color/texture difference and then recut the outline for crispness.

No matter what method, it will still be many hours. Be sure to charge enough. It's better to lose the job than to get it and lose money.

tdelewis · Apr 5, 2016

It seems to me that $10 per letter is pretty much a minimum charge. People asking for this type of work don't realize the time involved in layout and cutting. The size of letters is something that could come into consideration. I know for me, that small letters are more time consuming. I need to use higher magnification which means more moving the work and vice. I don't have one of those positioning vices.

Chujybear · Apr 5, 2016

There is a top engraver that frequents this site that quoted me 8$ a letter. But this was quite a few years ago and doesn't account for inflation.
At that rate. Or ten dollars for that matter, if you could cut three letters in an hr you'd be making a wage. But if you were doing a letter every five minutes you would be doing great.
Regardless of the number, per letter makes sense. Then you are not charging your customer to send you to school and your wage will rise naturally.

DakotaDocMartin · Apr 5, 2016

diandwill said:
It's better to lose the job than to get it and lose money.

Losing money on the job can be considered "tuition" for the learning experience.

rodsta · Apr 5, 2016

I wished I lived where you all do. $1100 to do the poem? To me it looks to be a fairly simple job that you could pump out in a couple hours tops. Even at $100 an hour puts it at $200 although I would probably do something like this for $400 supplying the 2x6 plate in silver and at that I probably wouldn't get the job.
It really depends on where you live and the disposable income for that area.

The simple equation is how much are your costs to run the business per hour + profit you want divided by how long the job takes you.

Rod

silverchip · Apr 5, 2016

50.00hr if you drop it off, 60.00hr if you want it next week,75.00hr if you wanna watch, 100.00hr if you say a word,ect... ect...
In reality it is really up to you. I do think consistency is the most important aspect of your pricing structure.

Andrew Biggs · Apr 5, 2016

There’s a few issues here.

The first is your time scale………..Christmas. Really?

Unless you have 12 months work ahead of you there is no excuse for that. Reputation is built on many things. One of them is a timely turnaround for certain types of work.

Self confidence is another. If you come across as not really knowing what you are doing, then the customer picks that up. They must have faith that they are dealing with a professional…………this has a direct effect on your pricing.

Pricing……….it’s basically a 2 - 3 hour job, tops. So I would charge approximately $300 ~ $400 for the entire job including layout time. For this I would use a computer transfer because it’s quick, easy and accurate. Naturally any state or federal taxes etc would go on top of that.

Included in your time is talking to the customer. Sometimes this can be a 5 minute conversation or it can be a two hour marathon. Writing up the paperwork. Jigging it in the vise, layout (computer or hand) any potential hassles, etc etc.

There’s a lot of variable in pricing your work. Confidence, or giving the appearance of confidence is one of the biggest.

If you suffer from any of the above then simply say………no.

Cheers
Andrew

Andrew Biggs · Apr 5, 2016

I need to use higher magnification which means more moving the work and vice. I don't have one of those positioning vices.

Using a microscope and turntable with a teflon pad between the two.............it is quicker and easier to push/slide your work around to centre it or cut long straight lines. It just becomes a natural movement that you don't even think about.

The only advantage of a positioning vise is the weight and mass of the vise for large/heavy objects like gun frames/barrels etc.

Cheers
Andrew

T.G.III · Apr 5, 2016

Thanks for all of the feedback, I really didn't expect this kind of turnout.

As far as the time frame, again during the initial conversation there were no dates or limitations on when the work needed to be done.

Yeah, I have no problems dealing with the customer in a confident manner, I've been self employed for the last 15 years dealing with the public in a necessity based service industry, I self promote.

I am new enough at all of this that what you guys see as a couple few hours is a day or more due to my self learning through the web, this is the reason for this post.

Thanks again to all that took the time to reply, your input is much appreciated.

celticjohn · Apr 6, 2016

$10 a letter....really!!
I reckon that's a 2 - 2.5 hour job maximum. As much as people love their pets, I really couldn't see anybody paying $10 a letter.
The job is to be done on "brass" sheet which would cost about $5.00 I reckon as mentioned in the first thread...not sterling silver.

I'd centre the date under "HARLEY" before starting anything.

monk · Apr 6, 2016

if engraving is a hobby, who cares ? if you intend on establishing an engraving "business", then you should consider all that was/is needed to do this work. i do mean ALL. no business ever started with the idea of losing money. as a business, that nasty idea of "total overhead" comes into mind. your customer/client should pay their fair share of overhead for each and every job. only way i know of doing this, to be fair to you & client, begins with keeping accurate records. lookin over these records will show where you're losing money by "eating" overhead that the client should be paying for.
if you choose to save time & the bother of doing this, you're on a fast track to losing money. fortunately there's a ton of inexpensive software out there. software out there with relational databases that can easily & quickly allow one to track all the stuff that goes in to producing a piece of work. such software really enlightened me years ago. i no longer need to use such, as i have come to grips with pricing. i don't do work where i know my fees will not be met. nor do i ever back down on a quote.

jerrywh · Apr 6, 2016

The problem with charging on that type of engraving is you are competing with a pantograph engraver. Anybody with a Hermes engraving machine can and will do that for probably $10.00 to $30.00. In order to pay good it must be incorporated with something beautiful and more complex. Just my opinion.

dlilazteca · Apr 6, 2016

Wants and needs, no one needs hand engraving, so if you want it then you must pay, i dont haggle on wants, nor do i come down in price if there getting two. I dont see them asking for a lower price on there children's new Nike shoes or xbox consoles. Charge them, or you'll be stuck with more of the same circle, when they show it off to thier friends and everyone will then want the low price.

GunEngraver.com Guns, Knives & More

Steve L S · Apr 6, 2016

jerrywh said:
The problem with charging on that type of engraving is you are competing with a pantograph engraver. Anybody with a Hermes engraving machine can and will do that for probably $10.00 to $30.00. In order to pay good it must be incorporated with something beautiful and more complex. Just my opinion.

Good Point. Engraving is a small part of my metalworking business and I do it with an antique pantograph resurrected back to life or with a modern cnc machine which also cuts patterns for metalcasting.Calligraphy Hand engraving with push gravers is my hobby so Rod's initial suggestion to use silver or maybe some gold or silver wire inlay to distinctly separate this from machine engraving (and to charge accordingly) makes sense. But it seems TG's client wants hand engraving, perhaps even appreciates the human skill level required to do it, and wants TG to do it.

Monk's post 14 above is spot on and as my Daddy would say "sonny boy listen to the voice of experience" Have seen so many businesses fold up over the years here because the owners were hypnotised by the romance of the artisan and fell asleep to the numbers game and ended up working for the same hourly rate as the trolley boy at Bi-Lo.
Steve

Tim Wells · Apr 6, 2016

Simply put, charge a fair price to you and the customer. If it is too much for the customer especially on an item like that (generally) then they may need to go to the mall and pay the pimple faced kid in the kiosk to scratch one up on his Hermes machine. That is what those machines are made for.

If on the other hand the customer specifically wants "hand engraving" because his emotional attachment for that dog warrants artisan level work, even on a piece like that then he surely has the means to pay the fair price for it. There are people like that but most are not.

Having a silver bracelet hand engraved with a love note for your wires birthday and a tag for a dog fall at opposite ends of the "care" spectrum in my book. For other folks, they are dead even and we have to anticipate and respect that possibility.

diandwill · Apr 6, 2016

In another thread, quite awhile ago, out esteemed dictator quoted the price of $12/letter.

That would be too much, with this many letters, but I know that I couldn't cut that many letters in 2 1/2-3 hours. I must be mighty slow. I would expect the job to take ma a minimum of 8 hours and maybe 10-12. It is what it is.

I do charge $10-$12/letter because, with layout time and prep, it takes me that much time. I can come down on my final price if it goes quickly, but I also am the one here that ends up doing all the jobs that can't be done by the available pantographs and machines. It does make people re-write their words, knowing that they can't (or won't) pay to have a complete chapter cut.

monk · Apr 6, 2016

diandwill said:
In another thread, quite awhile ago, out esteemed dictator quoted the price of $12/letter.

That would be too much, with this many letters, but I know that I couldn't cut that many letters in 2 1/2-3 hours. I must be mighty slow. I would expect the job to take ma a minimum of 8 hours and maybe 10-12. It is what it is.

I do charge $10-$12/letter because, with layout time and prep, it takes me that much time. I can come down on my final price if it goes quickly, but I also am the one here that ends up doing all the jobs that can't be done by the available pantographs and machines. It does make people re-write their words, knowing that they can't (or won't) pay to have a complete chapter cut.

to me, there's much wisdom in your attitude. maybe doing a less than a museum piece,which the client cant afford, is better in the long run to offer a less costly alternative. maybe later on this person will realize what it is that you do, and will perhaps become a loyal customer for all time. i like the idea of giving a client options. usually good for all involved.

Not another pricing thread.

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