photos of Nimshcke Colt

jplower

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Here's a group of photos on the possible Nimschke engraved Colt. I'll try to crop some for enlargements.

JP
 

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zzcutter

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I concur with Sam. I have studied his stuff for many years and have owned a few pieces he had engraved.
 

jplower

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Thank you gentlemen, for reinforcing my own, amateur conclusions. I am lucky enough to have the Harris book and based upon that reference, I made a purchase decision. Having your kind input is very exciting indeed. I have found two other early pistols having the same, boxed patent dates, and both are credited to Nimschke. I appreciate your expertise very, very much.

JP
 

Riflesmith

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Just a suggestion, I'd remove the grips and see if there isn't an identifiable mark either on the scales or on the metal under the grip. Some of Niemschke's students marked their work there. JMO
 

hpyglf

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I don't suppose you have the letter. It would be interesting to know to whom it was shipped. Also, would it be possible to see the gun overall?
 
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Tim Wells

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The shading looks off to me in a lot of places and that border overrun into the patent date block is very uncharacteristic of his work. I've been looking at his book a lot lately as well as photos of his work that I've taken myself or in auction books. Not saying it's a phony but there are elements that just look a little off.
 

jplower

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That is an area I first considered. I then found in Wilson's book and on a dealers page two other early guns with the rectangular box around the patent dates, one having the exact same overrun into the box. So I discounted that and focused on the scroll work and cutting technique as pictured and described by Fredric Harris in his book.

The gun was shipped blue and case colored, to a New York dealer in 1876 who was known to buy many Colts and have them engraved for patrons. The case colored frame was of course surface hard, which may explain some of the odd cuts, as I've heard it is difficult to cut, especially if a poor annealing job had been done leaving hard spots. The loading gate has a great deal of scale on the inner surface indicating some attempt to soften it.
 

hpyglf

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I presume then the buyer was SH&G. My study of OT22's indicates SH&G did not use LDN as frequently as say Spies Kissam or Kittredge in Cincinnatti. That does no mean they did not use him at all. Perhaps they left it up to the customer to choose the level of the artisan. It was all a matter of money and after all in 1876 the nation was still in the depths of the great depression following the Panic of 1873. I can, btw, show you some horrible ot22's from that period which RIA will always identify as factory, but they will not letter in a million years and were invariably sent to SHG.

Be that as it may, here is an image showing the left panel of the subject (with blue tint) and another gun known to be LDN (six years later). I could wax on about the differences, but you can be the judge.

The barrel to me looked to be quite good, technically. I am no maven by any means but while well-executed I just did not see the refinement of LDN. That said, it could be lighting and photography that makes the difference.

I was, however, struck by the cylinder. I attach an image with notations.

Just my two "junior member" cents.


Comparison.jpg attachment.jpg
 

jplower

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The gun was shipped to F.D. Folsom. As for the progression marks, Harris states that his marks are NOT evenly spaced. They start as longer cuts, sometimes as long as .060 of and inch, and as they approach the scroll, shorten up until they uniformly exit with a flat cut. Modern engravers use evenly spaced cuts, and so did many of the old masters, according to Harris. He said that only Nimschke use the increasingly shorter strokes and that was the best way to identify his work, along with the angle of attack. This is why I've brought it to the forum, it is very curious. I also think the work may have been done just before the turn of the century, based upon the family history, and the tiny amount of pitting on some of the surfaces under the silver plate. Does anyone have any known works done in his advanced age? Perhaps this would be responsible for uncharacteristic cuts or layout.
 

Sam

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As i mentioned in a previous thread, work should be compared with known LDN work of the same period. He engraved for 50 years and things are going to change, like design, execution, eyesight, etc.

In hpyglf's photos, the known LDN engraving is clearly more refined than the engraving in the other photo. An example would be the spacing in the crosshatching. In JP's top photo the crosshatching in the center leaf is very widely spaced.

When hpyglf's 2 photos are compared, it looks like 2 different engravers. However, I can show you 2 photos of my work that look like 2 different engravers.

This is a really interesting thread!
 

jplower

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Hey Sam, thanks for the replys, I've been out of the picture for awhile. There are scroll cuts that look exactly like the cuts in the Harris study attributed to Gustave Young or his staff, where the termination cuts are wedge shaped. I know Young didn't last into the 1890's, and perhaps this is from his shop
 

FANCYGUN

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In my opinion the work is not a Nimschke. It lacks the refinements that i have seen over the years of his works. Even the lesser ones. I have noticed over the years that dealers have been saying when they are in doubt or trying to upgrade what they have by calling it New York Style. This is very possible as a number of unknown to us engravers working in New York City did engrave many guns in this type of style. This was the fashion of the day. But did I read you correctly when you said there was pitting under the plating? If this is the case to me this discounts this as period engraving. Just my two cents worth
 

jplower

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Been out of commission for awhile. Since my last post, John Adams has seen the gun and truly believes it is Nimschke's later work. He walked up to my table at the OGCA, pointed to it and told his son "There's a Nimschke, study it!" Adams had worked with Wilson for years during the period when he was assembling photos for his engraving books. Adams said Nimschke used five different styles, some fine and some bold, which he felt this one is. It was also the cutting progression that told him it was his work, which follow the observations of Harris.

jp
 

tdelewis

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My 2 cents is that you can't claim that is LDM unless there is definite proof, such as documentation and or signature. Everyone hopes to have a gun by LDM and some times that leads people down the wrong trail. That was the case of a Marlin rifle that was shown a while back. The seller claimed that it LDM engraved but definitely was not. This case however it is not so easy to make a distinction. It is something we will always wonder about but never have a clear answer.
 

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