Question: how long did it take you to be really good

Sgarrison007 · Jan 11, 2016

Hi,

I'm new and I hope this question isn't redundant. But, I was wondering how long is reasonable to get good at this. Maybe I'm getting discouraged...what are reasonable expectations on progress?

StanT · Jan 11, 2016

Good is a relative term. I'm still waiting.

didyoung · Jan 11, 2016

That depends on the time and effort you put into study and practice.
You should continue to improve the entire journey.
The first 95% goes by quick...its the last 5% that requires the most effort.

Sam · Jan 11, 2016

Define really good.

Sgarrison007 · Jan 11, 2016

I relate. Engraving is a big committment. I'm commited. I hope I have the talent.

SamW · Jan 11, 2016

After 40 plus years I think I am the point where I could get "really good"...if I weren't so danged old and running out of time! But what a great journey!!

Sgarrison007 · Jan 11, 2016

You Sam. That is my definition of really good. but seriously. I would not show my work on this board. I guess I am wondering is, if you were a beginner today, would you expect to be comfortable showing your work after 3 months, 6 months, 12...I just want to know if I am making normal progress.

Sgarrison007 · Jan 11, 2016

I am amazed at what I see on this forum. I can only aspire to be so good. However, I hope to say someday that I am one of you and that I can say "you know you are an engraver when your kid comes home and asks when DAD is coming home from Norway and you say "I thought he was at the grocery store."

Just busting your balls...

Ha!

Roger Bleile · Jan 11, 2016

Seriously, when you say "good at this," you will have to be more specific. Are you talking about being a master gun engraver like Sam Welch, Phil Coggan, or Martin Strolz? If your objective is being able to do nice scrollwork in soft precious metal on jewelry, it is another thing. If your goal is engraving salable hobo nickles, it is yet another thing.

Even knowing the above, it is hard for us, who started in the dark ages when there was no Internet, no instruction books or videos, no classes, and nobody who would tell you anything to compare our progress with what is available now.

Give more specifics and you may get more specific answers.

Big-Un · Jan 11, 2016

Been at it for over thirty years and am still hoping to be "good enough" to some folks!

diandwill · Jan 11, 2016

I have been engraving for over 10 years, as a professional jeweler. I engrave things that are good enough to sell, and try to keep the price down, so they aren't as good as they could be.

Since I started, Shawn Didyoung, Danae Cresswell and Joann Ryall, of note, have taken up the art of engraving. They are dedicated, work hard and study constantly. They will be masters, should they choose to pass the tests with FEGA and go that route.

You can progress as fast as you are willing, if you dedicate yourself and work at it. Like SamW, I am getting old. Hopefully I will get to the point that I can dedicate more time to improving and less to putting food on the table.

It is up to you!

Riflesmith · Jan 12, 2016

The beauty of art is in the eye of the beholder! An engraving that may appeal to one person may not appeal to another. Good? SamW said it best "The piece I'm working on at present is just practice for the next piece" or something to that effect...sorry if I didn't get that exactly right SamW. Good? Good with your tools? Good with your pencil and design work? Good enough to sell your work? People may call some of us artists but I'll bet very few of us would call ourselves artists, most of us are still working to create that one true perfect flawless masterpiece. JMO

Sam · Jan 12, 2016

The question is impossible to answer. We're talking about a combination of art and hand-eye coordination, both of which vary greatly from person to person. If you were asking how long it will take to be a really good appliance repairman, then the answer would probably be after you have completed the necessary courses and passed the tests. Hand engraving design and execution is a different animal altogether.

Thinking back in the 36 years I've been doing this professionally (and 10 years of struggle prior), I would say it took me about eight years to get to the point where I was producing high level work. Prior to that I had plenty of customers who were happy with what I was doing at the time and I was having a ball earning money being able to do something that I loved.

Here are a couple of examples for you.

The first knife I engraved in 1980

Engraved knife in 1988 while at New Orleans Arms Co.

Jared Eason · Jan 12, 2016

Personally, I think you are hurting yourself more by not showing your work on the forum. I know its hard to start showing at first. But, you must take every comment with a grain of salt. By showing your work with others it gives you the advantage of knowledge from the experienced. Practice doesn't make perfect, but perfect practice does. Everyone has little things they like to do different with scroll but the basics are the same. Show your work , get criticized, pick the tips that most appeal to your personal interest. Just don't make the mistake I did and think you can breeze over or skip the basics. Poor foundation with leave you with wasted time and frustration.

atexascowboy2011 · Jan 12, 2016

Sam's post nearly said it all.
He left out the part of running with the Big Dogs (Lyndon Mckenzie and other greats).
In roping, basketball or any other endeavor you need to surround yourself with great players and have the desire to advance. If you practice only with "B" team players or just sit on the bench watching you will never make it to the big leagues.

Most of us do not have the opportunity to play side by side with these Big Dogs, BUT ! , with the advent of "The Cafe" we have a court side seat to observe their game.

Perfect a simple scroll/cut and build on that.
In other words you don't get to the playoffs without knowing how to do a simple layup.

Martin Strolz · Jan 12, 2016

Thanks, Roger. I am flattered.
Sam, loved to see your first scrolls!

Imagine you start very early as a teen- and there is no doubt that engraving is going to be the profession you earn your living with you get better rather quick. You take it serious, you draw all night and engrave every day. In case you have a good teacher your progress depends just on your talent.

I show a rifle that I did in the summer holidays at the age of 19 back in 1977 - without having some of the techniques done before. Gold inlays, pierced trigger guard, all relief chasing. Acceptable layout, but bad detailing and execution. I got kind words for it only because my teacher loved seeing me toiling during summer. For comparison, the doubles were done lately some decades later.
Today you have all informations at your fingertips, if you are gifted with artistic and manual skills you can reach a lot in a few years. If it is important to you - of course.

Weldon47 · Jan 12, 2016

"How long does it take to get good?"
Don't know about that but…here's something I do know:

First: allow you to Believe in yourself. Believe you can do it and don't take no for an answer!

Second: Don't quit-Never stop trying-Keep at it and keep trying to get better…..

Third: Never be completely satisfied which what you've accomplished

Fourth: Revisit one, two & three on a regular basis.

Good luck & best wishes,

Weldon

Brian Marshall · Jan 12, 2016

It took about 10 or 15 years for me to feel cocky... like I really knew all there was to know.

Then I went and took some "formal" instruction - and removed all doubt that I was still in diapers and barely walking.

John Barraclough, Sam Welch and Eric Gold were my foundation teachers. One after another...

Since '87 I have taken about 40 more classes/workshops/"one on ones". Not all on engraving, but most of them. The others were metalsmithing skills that were/are related.

Lots of time, lots of travel and lots of money later - I am still not completely satisfied at the end of a day. Yes, I am satisfied that I have done my best that particular day - but I know now that there is an awful lot I don't know... yet.

College may seem expensive, but it eventually ends. (for most people)

This kind of learning is a lifelong commitment. And it "costs" far more for that very reason. (In ways you might not think about... I've personally lost or wrecked some very good relationships over the amount of time that I spent working and learning)

Other people take vacations...

Instead, I plan to take 3 more weeks worth of "one on one", classes or workshops this year. Never ends...

Brian

rmgreen · Jan 12, 2016

Both Sam's have said it with depth of knowledge and heart. Sam "its impossible" to answer this question and the "Other Sam" said "After 40 plus years I think I am the point where I could get "really good"...if I weren't so danged old and running out of time! But what a great journey!!"

"Really Good" is relative to the goals set. What's your goal?

jerrywh · Jan 12, 2016

Like the others say good is a reletive term. I have been engraving for about 13 years. That is a relatively short time. All the engravers that I consider real good have been engraving about 3 times that long or more. However there are not many in that group, maybe a dozen. If you are fanatical at this I think you could get reasonably good in about 8 to 10 years. As far as being in the top few goes I don't think it is just a matter of time. It is a mind set. You have to genuinely love to do this. If you don't love it you will never reach that level. Those people are not just engravers. They are special in that they love to create beauty. They are special. It's not enough to cut metal.

Question: how long did it take you to be really good

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