flat topped concho

diandwill · Jan 10, 2016

I have a bridle brought in for repair. It is missing a flat topped concho...raised about 1/4" from the base. What is the best way to do this? I don't have a hydraulic press, and only need to do one, the other is still there.

Thanks

Boomhower · Jan 10, 2016

You will need to make a die. With some pipe with thick wall is what I used for making rasp concho's and a pics of solid bar stock for the punch. And grind your shape in the two pieces. Not a very fast proget but its not to ruff I wish I had photos of what I used but I gave it away to a friend you can use a hammer to like I done I didn't have a press myself

Brian Marshall · Jan 10, 2016

Were they mine, by any chance?

Put up an image - if they are/were, I can make a blank for you...

Brian

diandwill · Jan 10, 2016

Brian Marshall said:
Were they mine, by any chance?

Put up an image - if they are/were, I can make a blank for you...

Brian

They are at work, but unless you have passed, I don't think they were yours. It's an old bridle/bit that was made in Cali many years ago, I think the owner said the late 50's or 60's and the maker has died several years ago. She paid almost a grand back then. The lady who owns it showed Arabians, mostly SoCal, and won many awards, then showed Western with this piece. She also won many awards in that field. She retired up her in Eastern Wash and trains Arabians in her stable etc. I will take a pic on Tues and send it, with measurements, and if you can punch a blank, That would be cool. I've got several ideas on how to, similar to Boomhower's, but I just need to get the job done.

Brian Marshall · Jan 11, 2016

Well, I ain't dead yet... but late 60's is possible. '69 to be exact. And I am in CA, so even if I didn't make them - I likely know who did?

Brian

diandwill · Jan 12, 2016

Here is a pic. The raised part is about an inch 1/16 and the concho is 1 3/4 point to point. Also a pic of the whole piece. Handheld, so please excuse. I'll make them if this isn't something from your shop. Fastened on with rivets.

Brian Marshall · Jan 12, 2016

They could possibly have come out of my shop... but I don't recall ever scalloping in that way? And the engraving looks more like early Vic Vasquez than mine or anybody else I can think of? It's a simple pattern.

Are you saying that the raised part is one inch in diameter? From the front or interior of the back?

And 1/16" in height? I don't think that that can be right...

Set the concho on a flat surface. Get the exterior height. Then slide it about halfway off an accessible edge. Measure the true interior depth from the edge of whatever your flat surface is up into .

I DO think I have the dies for that dome that will give you an inch and three quarter finished concho.

The only way to be absolutely sure that it will match the dimensions of what you have would be to either get very specific measurements or send the me the one you've got and lay it right on the male die... no guesswork with that method.

Also the sheet guage? Should be least 20 or as heavy as 18 depending...

It will be a domed and flanged blank and you will have to layout and cut those particular scallops. They are not common.

The pins were common Monel or brass escutcheon pins. I probably have those too.

Brian

diandwill · Jan 13, 2016

If I send the concho down, and it matches your die, what charge to stamp one? Haraga suggests I let you make it, What charge that way, and what time table. It has sat here for a few months and I am now wanting it to be done. I can make it myself, but if you have the die, so much easier. I will measure better today. Those were just brass sliding guage and done quickly. Will

Tried to PM you but your box is full. You can PM the answer or send it to willtheengraver@gmail.com

Thanks, Will

Brian Marshall · Jan 13, 2016

Sent you an email...

B.

fjkratky · Jan 14, 2016

Any tipa on forming a flat top conch with a press? thank you

Brian Marshall · Jan 14, 2016

Hmmm.... first thought that came to mind was puttin' a regular domed concho on top of a railroad track and let the train do the work, but probably not exactly what you had in mind?

Second thought is that there HAS to be a youtube video out there somewhere. I know exactly who you should ask, but that'd start another kerfuffle...

And then there was this hands on workshop I used to offer on making forming dies for all kinds of cowboy silver - several times over the years... not enough interest...

Brian

In the fewest words possible: The best way to make a flat domed concho die is to start with a lathe and two pieces of round steel stock close to the desired final measurements. (There may, however, be different requirements depending upon planet and universe location...)

On this particular planet the rest of the process should be self-evident?

Lathe operation used to be taught in high school machine shop classes.

Maybe write your congressman about why it's no longer considered useful?

ALL useful classes in my state have been cut. Kids don't need practical skills anymore - cooking, balancing a bank account, making and fixing things out of wood or metal... and definitely not skills like changing a leaky faucet washer, replacing a light switch or even handwriting... ...

Some things just can't be well enough explained in a normal paragraph or two in a forum post. It takes time, and you gotta SEE it done. (that's why there's youtube!)

My apologies in advance to those who seem to get offended by my darker humor.

“Some things you can't find out; but you will never know you can't by guessing and supposing: no, you have to be patient and go on experimenting until you find out that you can't find out.” ― Mark Twain

monk · Jan 18, 2016

i have never made a concho. i have made similar shaped items of brass and copper. if the gauge is reasonably thin, a positive/negative can be quickly made of hardwood. you can torch parts to speed up the carving/shaping. for a very limited run of pieces, this is quick, cheap, and easy. the pieces were about.050" thick. copper worked as is. the brass had to be annealed. just too tough to work that way.

Marrinan · Jan 19, 2016

Ya Brain, About the time I got my Doctorate in vocation ed nobody wanted teachers with those skills anymore. Most of the teacher education programs in vocational education have shout down. In ten years there wont be any of us still alive to teach teachers and the industrial revolution as far as the US of A is concerned will come to a halt.

bronc · Jan 19, 2016

I'm no expert but my guess is that could be the work of Bill Stewart, who is now deceased. The engraving style and the layout on the bit are reminiscent of Bill's work. If it is Bill's, I don't think it could be as old as she thinks. But it wouldn't be the first time that has happened lol.

Stewart

bitmaker · Jan 20, 2016

Have you ever tried urethane to form conchos? It's what I use and works great for all kings of irregular shapes and different domes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dogcatcher · Jan 20, 2016

bitmaker said:
Have you ever tried urethane to form conchos? It's what I use and works great for all kings of irregular shapes and different domes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A pair of flip flops will also work, just buy a pair that have pretty stiff soles. Found that out when I was making some brass fishing spoons. We had hammered out a few, then made a wood mold and used a hydraulic press with a flip flop.

diandwill · Feb 4, 2016

bronc said:
I'm no expert but my guess is that could be the work of Bill Stewart, who is now deceased. The engraving style and the layout on the bit are reminiscent of Bill's work. If it is Bill's, I don't think it could be as old as she thinks. But it wouldn't be the first time that has happened lol.

Stewart

DING-DING-DING! We have a winner! She said it was Bill Stewart when she picked it up.

I muddled through. She was happy.

flat topped concho

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