Messing around with French grey and bulino

Dani Girl · Oct 30, 2015

Messing around.

First go at french grey using Birchwood and Casey blue and removers. I tried using their cleaner and decrease first then blueing and it was shocking splotchy. Several coats later I deemed it good enough then masked with hard ground. And rubbed the blue remover around for ages. Rubbed too hard around the thinly coated edges so there is a little bleed around the Centre piece

Any tips on getting even finishes?

Danae

Dani Girl · Oct 30, 2015

Progress pictures on my first bulino attempt. If you can call it that.

Dani Girl · Oct 30, 2015

Off the topic is 925 harder to inlay or engrave than 999 silver. I had a pure gold coin to engrave during the week and I used rotary burs and it was horrible. It didn't cut out it just built up next to the bur.

Is silver the same. Better to work on with some alloy. I think 925 doesn't tarnish as easily correct?

MICHAEL · Oct 30, 2015

Danae you asked how to get a more even finish. My experience is very limited but here's my .02 cents. I used phosphoric acid from the hardware store to pickle the parkerized finish from a 1911 pistol prior to engraving. I had made a money clip that I engraved during my first year engraving and decided to see what French grey looked like. I'll include the pictures so you can judge for yourself. Since then I have found that the way the material is prepped seems to determine how your finish turns out. You can see that my prep was lacking when I did this. Also left too long In solution. I applied gun oil when I did this over 4 years ago and never since. Has held up well since people handle it when they come over and has shown no sign of rust. Hope this helps :thumbsup:

dhall · Oct 30, 2015

Hi Dani,

Just the opposite; 925 would tarnish more readily than 999. Unless you are using an alloy like Argentium, or one of that ilk which has something like Germanium in the alloy. Copper in the 925 is more reactive than silver, so the majority of tarnish in 925 is a copper oxide. In Argentium-like alloys, Germanium suppresses the ability of copper to oxidize. Germanium oxide is relatively colorless, so it gives the impression of not oxidizing or tarnishing. As an aside, a passive way to minimize oxidation/tarnish is to highly polish metal. There is nominally less surface area on highly polished surfaces, and crystalline boundaries are smoother and less susceptible to corrosion/oxidation. It's harder for oxidation to grab on and take hold on such a smooth surface.

24k gold is so very soft (only about 30 on the Vickers hardness scale - the generally accepted minimum Vickers hardness of any metal used for jewelry is in the 110 range) that it is incredibly gummy with high-speed tools. Cuts very easy with gravers, though. Since 925 silver is harder than 999, 925 isn't particularly gummy, really quite easy to manipulate with rotary tools. 999 silver is still somewhat harder than pure gold, so it's not as gummy, but it doesn't cut as cleanly as 925 silver with rotary tools.

Because 999 silver is softer than 925, 999 would be easier to inlay into harder metals, since it would flow into undercuts and lock in place more readily than 925.

Best regards,
Doug

sinan · Oct 30, 2015

Hi Danae,

I am still practicing bulino but I think I can say some for you because it worked for me. I have no any art background and had never tried to draw, paint or engraving. I read many books about drawing especially for pencil drawing. I tried to find close up photos of bulino engravings cause I've never met any bulino engraved gun in Turkey. You are lucky that possibly you can see many of them in your country. There are many videos in youtube which show how to draw or paint, fur and feather. These are very helpful for me. It is better to try to start engraving of short haired dogs like pointers instead of wolf. Wolf, bear fur were more difficult for me. I am drawing and painting watercolor alongside my bulino practices and it helps me too.

There are good information in Thierry's videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp_r1tev3pSMVS4OjhyjVsA

These are my works has been done all in my life for art.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/67079346@N05/albums/72157627458439803

https://www.flickr.com/photos/67079346@N05/albums/72157632338834763

diandwill · Oct 30, 2015

Katherine Plumer did an amazing tutorial, on the Lindsay site for a contest, on scrimming. I know that scrimming and bulino are different, but they are also very similar. It shows in her transition to doing bulino pendants. It is well worth taking a look.
http://handengravingforum.com/showthread.php?t=1960

Dani Girl · Oct 31, 2015

Progress report.

A bit of progress today. First time ever using Phil coggan bulino point. First time hand pushing for 4 years. Half the shading is just stippling. I am going to go over that with lots of lines til I get the 'colour' I want.

I would have chosen something easier but this was the clients request. I told him I would try and of its a disaster he doesn't have to buy it.

Dani Girl · Nov 1, 2015

sinan · Nov 1, 2015

I like the eyes. There are no nostrils. I think your lines too thick and need more shading.

Dani Girl · Nov 1, 2015

I think I'll sand the bottom a bit... Dad just accused it of looking like a human with a wolf's head wearing a fur coat.

Dani Girl · Nov 4, 2015

What's the best finish before starting bulino?

Riflesmith · Nov 7, 2015

I prefer either highly polished or the surface to be free of pits and sanded with 1200 grit. Basically I prefer the surface to be free of blemishes.

Barry Lee Hands · Nov 9, 2015

for prepping before bulino:
1.The best, highest brightest finish will give the best look when looked at from the " sweet spot" .
you can use a wheel with white compound to achieve this, or, go to about 3000 with paper.
Or,
2. if you want it easier to see from different angles, go to about 600 grit with paper, for a satin background.
or,
3.if you want it easiest to see, highly polish, do the bulino and when finished, blast with 260 grit aluminum oxide at 20 psi for a matte finish over the bulino .
I like method #1 the best.

a comment about French grey, and things called "French grey":
True French grey is made by removing case colors with rottenstone or other abrasive.
This is the way it was done hundreds of years ago, and gives a highly carburized rust resistant finish.
The old " coin finish" is the same method with finer abrasive.
You can see examples of this finish in excellent condition after hundreds of years in museums around the world.
An etched finish with acid, is just that, an acid etched finish. it is a very poor, rust prone finish, about the worst there is for practical use.
a better substitute for the real thing is to mask with clear tape, cut around the area to be greyed, and blast with aluminum oxide at 20 psi.
in my very humble opinion.

JJ Roberts · Nov 9, 2015

I like Marty's formula Lysol toilet bowl cleaner power after bluing,I use Brownells baking lacquer for masking around any animal or birds to be French grayed.It very simple to use just neutralize the grayed area with baking soda. J.J.

Thierry Duguet · Nov 9, 2015

Hummm, In Belgium French gray was done with a bath of cyanide salt, the receiver (part) was heated to a dark red then quench in the bath of cyanide salt, and finally cool down in water and finish by dipping the part in water displacing oil, no sanding or abrasive of any sort was use at any point, it was done that way for a very long time, of course that practice if now defunct. Removing the color from case coloring is not very satisfying because the different component use during the process oxidize the surface of the metal differently (that is why you have different colors) and that oxidation may visibly etch the surface, furthermore it is never a good idea to submit bulino to mechanical abrasion. Having seen the work from Italian engraver as well as the work of Jon Robin (one of the American master of the technique) it does not seem necessary to have anything better than 1000 grip, as bulino is a relatively new technique you do not see it done on older French grey guns, on modern firearms the work is mostly preserve by the quality of the metal alloy use, I presume that once finish the part is heat harden in an atmosphere control furnace.
Of course when one does do bulino on older gun one need to French gray the firearm, I use something call: DX579 from CHEMFIL, it needs to be diluted and it work better if the part is warm, I stop the reaction with soapy water but it does not require any mechanical action so your work is well preserve and as sharp as before treatment.

DakotaDocMartin · Nov 10, 2015

Thierry Duguet said:
I use something call: DX579 from CHEMFIL, it needs to be diluted and it work better if the part is warm, I stop the reaction with soapy water but it does not require any mechanical action so your work is well preserve and as sharp as before treatment.

DX579 is a multi-purpose phosphoric acid based cleaner and prepaint conditioner for most metals.

Barry Lee Hands · Nov 10, 2015

Thierry, i agree about the cyanide hardening, a more recent method than the old case color removal.
Of course it tends to damage gold, but besides that, at least as effective.

dlilazteca · Nov 10, 2015

JJ Roberts said:
I like Marty's formula Lysol toilet bowl cleaner power after bluing,I use Brownells baking lacquer for masking around any animal or birds to be French grayed.It very simple to use just neutralize the grayed area with baking soda. J.J.

JJ,

Very interesting and thanks for the advice, how to you go about masking off the areas you do not want coated? Nail polish? tape? just brainstorming here.

After reading and analyzing.....do you protect the french grey and bulino area with the spray or the surrounding area that is not french greyed.

JJ Roberts · Nov 10, 2015

Carlos,Marty's way is as simple as it gets,I don't do anything to the French gray except scrub area with a tooth brush & baking soda to neutralize.KISS keep it simple students,I try to stay away from really dangerous chemicals. J.J.

Messing around with French grey and bulino

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