Question: Polishing a piece before engraving

Idaho Flint

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I am hoping to get some help or understanding for the experts on this forum on the art of prepping and polishing a gun before engraving begins. I don't recall reading a good tutorial on how to do it, and would love to know if someone is willing to share.

My interest comes from seeing the beautiful FEGA show gun that Mike Dubber posted. It is very obvious to me that in order to get this kind of result, the proper prep work must be done ahead of time.

So please, if you will, share your techniques, methods, equipment, etc. with me.

Thank You.
Mike
 

Sam

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The world's best engraved guns are meticulously hand prepped before engraving. This is done with files, stones, and sandpaper, and not standing in front of a buffing machine. When I was at New Orleans Arms Co I'd spend a good week getting a gun prepped for engraving. I don't know of any videos or tutorials on the subject, and it's difficult to type a how-to, but I will tell you that the goal is to create flawless surfaces by removing machining marks and then truing all edges so they are straight and crisp with perfectly sharp corners, etc. Out-of-the-box guns are ok for production engraving but not for exhibition grade work.

Have a close look at engraved guns and you'll see who goes the extra mile to prepare a perfect canvas for engraving. McKenzie was a fanatic about it and so is Churchill, and in addition to beautiful engraving, that's what sets their work apart.
 

tdelewis

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Sam is correct. I am currently working on a Winchester that was made in 1906. You just start with coarse abrasives and work to the ones that give a fine polish. It is very important to keep all the edges sharp and crisp. This gun has an octagon barrel. I have draw filed it and there are still dings that will need restorative welding. I will send it out for that. I'm into my second week on it. If this was a gun for a client I couldn't charge enough, but it is my own and I only work on it when I can. There is no easy solution!
 

Sam

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I remember seeing a small pistol that McKenzie engraved for the president of Paraguay. It was a small stainless steel .380 and it was amazing. I was a fledgling engraver and didn't know anything about prepping guns (or even that it was done), and this gun was so bloody sharp and crisp and perfect that I couldn't stop gawking at it. It was then I realized it was the same AMT .380 Backup that was out in my truck! McKenzie miraculously transformed this middle-of-the-road gun into a little masterpiece, and the prep work was a huge part of it.

Prepping is something every engraver worth his salt should be proficient at. Believe me when I tell you that those in the know will instantly spot engraved guns with little or no prep work.

Thanks for starting this thread, Mike. :thumbsup:
 

rmgreen

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Sam has stressed some very important points here. It has been "normal" practice that the engraver engraves the firearm/article. It is the "metal finisher" who prepares the metal for engraving. In the USA these lines of workmanship are not a clearly defined as in most other countries who build this level of firearms. I have spent a lifetime of learning and practicing metal preparations as well as other aspects of gunmaking. Lots of input from fellow gunmakers, books, articles and how to's from companies like Gesswein and other companies specializing in metal finishing tools and supplies. They are books, DVD etc on things like "Mold making and polishing". There are power tools (not the polishing/buffing wheels types) like power reciprocating stone/abrasive polishers that will provide the highest quality finishes. These speed up the work of the professional. They will NOT provide a better finish than proper hand finishing. It is a matter of expense versus time and yes "PROFIT" for the professional. I hear conversation about why do Purdey's, Holland and Holland's and others cost so much. Well among many other factors in gunmaking its the quality of finishing of the metal and other aspects of gunmaking. Take a close look at the action part of those guns engraved and pictured on the forum of Phil Coggan, M. Hunt and the other engravers who work on this class of gunmaking art. You will see "ALL" surfaces polished and properly finished not just surfaces that are to be engraved but inside and out, springs, pins, hammers, sideplates, you get the picture. It is quite "simple"! One just keeps removing the scratches left by the previous operation until one can not see "scratches" while maintaining sharp detail lines and edges. Easy to write but damn hard to accomplish.
 

dlilazteca

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Ive been learning from a 4th generation gunsmith, it really is an art in itself, every piece and part is different, they speak to you telling you what they need. It's something that you just learn from doing it, youll have mistakes and learn from them. Its just like engraving takes a long time to master.

Saludos,
Carlos
 

silverchip

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Finish work before engraving could be a career in its self. Most engravers either have a finisher that they like or do it themselves because they are that picky.
 

Sam

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Finish work before engraving could be a career in its self. Most engravers either have a finisher that they like or do it themselves because they are that picky.

And there are some that are not picky enough.
 

leschowe

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Hi Sam,
Thanks for that information! Well done.
I think that initial prep on my guns is an area that I personally really need to improve on. Many guns, when you remove the bluing, are seriously scratched - especially Colts. I think that they use wire wheel brushes on the guns in their finishing process. And your are correct, it takes a tremendous amount of Elbow-Grease to get the scratches out.
Sometimes I think that if the scratches are in an area that I will engrave, that I can engrave over the scratches, but you really can not do this. The scratches still downgrade the quality of your shading in the engraving. I think that the only place that you can get away with this theory is in background areas.

Les Schowe
 

JJ Roberts

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I do all my own prep before engraving and restore firearms for other engravers & collectors,my shop offers complete restoration of classic and antique firearms hot bluing,slow rust,charcoal bluing nitre blue,gold plating,stock refinishing,re-cut checkering,lettering restored & duplicated by a former Tiffany engraver.The color case hardening is sent out to Classic Guns. J.J.
 

DKanger

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my shop offers complete restoration of classic and antique firearms hot bluing,slow rust,charcoal bluing nitre blue,gold plating,stock refinishing,re-cut checkering,lettering restored & duplicated by a former Tiffany engraver

Yet, you got all hacked off when I mentioned that I would be posting some things for sale ON THE BUY AND SELL PAGE in a different thread.
I thought members of this forum were to post things for sale on the buy & sell page? J.J.

Obviously you think it's OK to sell your services, but I can't sell my parts. Get the point??
 

JJ Roberts

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Dave I'm not selling my services did you see my phone number or address listed,no go back and look again. J.J.
 

Brian Marshall

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Dave,

J.J. made a statement. No more, no less...

As do some of us on here who very obviously are connected with hand engraving for a living - and provide services of one kind or another.

It's kinda obvious in each post you read - whether the writer is a hobbyist or makes some sort of living from what he/she writes about... (at least if you've been on here long enough?)


By your reckoning, I am "advertising" every time I mention a student did this that or the other thing in one of my posts?

Or when a student gets on here and mentions his/her experience with whatever teacher? C'mon... lighten up!


Brian
 
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Betley Park

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This thread poses a great question.
I remember, vividly, Damien Connelly, doing his best to try and teach me the correct preparing and finishing of any surface to be engraved. What an absolute nightmare!!!
You think a surface is flat, it's not, you think your edges are straight, they're not, well, not straight enough, radius the corners and edges, not level, keep going, too much, start again!!!!
Hand polishing to a mirror finish. Hope he doesn't notice THAT mark. Noooo, keep going.
Anybody who can proficiently prepare a firearm action for engraving certainly is a craftsman. It is not easy! But a really necessary evil.
 

dlilazteca

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This thread poses a great question.
I remember, vividly, Damien Connelly, doing his best to try and teach me the correct preparing and finishing of any surface to be engraved. What an absolute nightmare!!!
You think a surface is flat, it's not, you think your edges are straight, they're not, well, not straight enough, radius the corners and edges, not level, keep going, too much, start again!!!!
Hand polishing to a mirror finish. Hope he doesn't notice THAT mark. Noooo, keep going.
Anybody who can proficiently prepare a firearm action for engraving certainly is a craftsman. It is not easy! But a really necessary evil.

So true, when working on them you realize all the imperfections, flat area, dips, all become evident. I see the errors made from manufacturers, which are many, even rounded corners are found and must be fixed.

Saludos,
Carlos
 
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dclevinger

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Bob Strosin did a seminar on metal prep in 2009. I believe the video is available and might be worth taking a look at.
I have several sets of stones that I use for prep-work along with a draw file and a couple of reshaped files that Ralf Martini showed me.
As others have said, it does make a huge difference. The biggest problem I have seen with gunsmithing students that are just learning to hand polish
is the tendency to round corners while trying to go too fast. Take your time and keep the file/ stone flat on the work piece.
 

DKanger

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J.J. made a statement. No more, no less...

So that makes it OK for some, but not others? Any time someone plugs their business, they are selling. My business was ancillary to engraving, but includes some. Like you, I have a bunch of inventory left over from my store. I don't actively try to sell it but whenever an opportunity presents itself, I mention it. In the post referenced, I posted the statement that I had some parts that others might wish to use as practice pieces and said I would be posting the info in the Buy and Sell forum, as is proper. I didn't mention my phone number or address either. However, I received a couple of PM's about selling parts in HIS thread.

It doesn't bother me that people post about their goods or services, but I don't need anyone *****ing at me if I do. Nuff said!!
It's water over the dam.
 

Big-Un

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In my early days I engraved a Colt Mustang for my son. The gun was so rough I spent two weeks just preparing it to engrave, more than the engraving took. I gave it to him as a carry gun (he's a Sheriff's deputy) and he promptly put it in the safe. So much for advertising! Said it was too good to carry.

Bill
 

Brian Marshall

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Dave,

That's kinda interesting... I have never received such a PM in my 10 years? on here.

I have questioned if there was demand for a workshop on a certain skill on the forum...

Even when I have done exactly as you said, and announced on the forum that I had something posted over in BUY/SELL.

Perhaps you should consult an astrologer to see what's going on with that? :)


B.
 

Dave London

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I had JJ Polish a 1894 Winchester action for me. A excellent job, more than fair fee.
Did I mention I hate to polish, I do it but prefer not too.
 
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