Help, please: A challenge to hold and engrave

Dani Girl · Sep 16, 2015

I am struggling to hold and to cut this very curvy knife. Any tips?

Sam · Sep 16, 2015

I would wrap it in a plastic shopping bag for protection and make a 2-part fixture from Thermo-Lock. I'd probably make 2 fixtures, one for each end. The pointy end will probably be more difficult to keep in a fixture.

JJ Roberts · Sep 16, 2015

Dani,Hot glue the knife to a piece of wood then put it in your vise,you'll be good to go. :thumbsup:

J.J.

mitch · Sep 16, 2015

Dani-

have a local wood turner make you some big cylindrical sections, maybe some 2", 2.5", & 3" diameter x however long you might ever need. have him saw/mill/plane flats on opposing sides. fixture your curved parts to the flats (glue, jettsett, pitch, whatever works), then you'll have nice parallel clamping surfaces to rotate the piece in your vice.

note- i used to make these sorts of fixtures for sale to the trade, but demand was too low to keep at it. i guess a lot of people really like fighting with their projects. adds to the challenge, i suppose...

Big-Un · Sep 16, 2015

I got some of Mitch's wood fixtures and I must say they have saved my sanity on certain items. I tried thermoloc with them, and although the thermoloc worked fine, hot glue worked better on some items. I use them more now as their shape allows better adjustability.

Thanks Mitch.

Bill

Brian Marshall · Sep 16, 2015

Use Mitch's idea, but maybe allow the two ends you have to work on to protrude enough to have complete access?

Leather works to grab the wood, but I've made up pads with coarse sandpaper to grab the wood even more securely.

Brian

Beathard · Sep 16, 2015

Thermoloc and either shopping bag until the polymer cools or use blue painters tape to protect the knife.

Southern Custom · Sep 16, 2015

I had a conversation with another engraver about thermoloc recently and we agreed that the stuff can act like a trampoline if you don't pay attention to how you make your fixture. The wood fixture is great but a steel fixture would cut vibration even more when fixturing with this stuff.
Layne

monk · Sep 16, 2015

dani girl: grs makes a "contour vise". it fits the block. is made to hold knives, watches and such. they aren't really that pricey, and eliminate the need for glue, thermoloc, etc. it's shown on the grs site.

mitch · Sep 16, 2015

monk said:
dani girl: grs makes a "contour vise". it fits the block. is made to hold knives, watches and such. they aren't really that pricey, and eliminate the need for glue, thermoloc, etc. it's shown on the grs site.

i read her question as needing to deal with the radius of the curvature rounding over the sides of the knife, not the curves of its outline or 'silhouette'. the GRS fixture is fine for handing pieces with a curved outline, but aren't made to rotate in the vise jaws.

Dani Girl · Sep 16, 2015

Ok. So wood fixture with blue painters tape and thermoloc Vs wood with hot glue.

I apologize if I seem to be asking stupid questions but I really don't want to damage the knife this guy has put so many hours into building.

Thermo lock you just heat with a craft heat gun... hot glue.... how do you work with that... how do you get it off the piece. Would it damage the wood?

Sam · Sep 16, 2015

Southern Custom said:
I had a conversation with another engraver about thermoloc recently and we agreed that the stuff can act like a trampoline if you don't pay attention to how you make your fixture. The wood fixture is great but a steel fixture would cut vibration even more when fixturing with this stuff.
Layne

Thermo-Lock is quick and easy. The tradeoff is it's not a hard as we'd like, and it can be bouncy if you don't have everything just right. And when it's right it can still be bouncy.

Years ago many of us made wooden block fixtures like Mitch's using Bondo or epoxy putty. They're much harder than Thermo-lock, but take longer to make depending on the object you're molding.

An engraver has to consider the time it takes to securely hold something like this and add it to the price. It's very easy to waste a couple of hours fiddling around trying different ways to hold an odd shaped article.

LVVP · Sep 16, 2015

Thank you for advices

Dani Girl · Sep 16, 2015

Thanks everyone. I went for masking tape plus plastic bag. Looks like it should work a charm. Letting it get really cold then time to have some fun. In my foolish youth I tried something like this but it caught on fire in the microwave when I went to release it. At least it was good for a laugh. This is great. Thank you everyone.

monk · Sep 16, 2015

mitch said:
i read her question as needing to deal with the radius of the curvature rounding over the sides of the knife, not the curves of its outline or 'silhouette'. the GRS fixture is fine for handing pieces with a curved outline, but aren't made to rotate in the vise jaws.

thanx mitch. good to know someone is actually paying better attention than i ! after having taken a better look at her knife, you're correct. the grs c.v. would not work here.

monk · Sep 16, 2015

Dani Girl said:
Ok. So wood fixture with blue painters tape and thermoloc Vs wood with hot glue.

I apologize if I seem to be asking stupid questions but I really don't want to damage the knife this guy has put so many hours into building.

Thermo lock you just heat with a craft heat gun... hot glue.... how do you work with that... how do you get it off the piece. Would it damage the wood?

dani: hot melt is very good for certain holding situations. quite easy to remove-- a few drops of isopropyl alcohol will readily loosen it. not sure if the isopropyl would damage the wood. i like the hot melt for flats like pendants, coins, and medallions.
stupid questions ?? the only stupid question is the one you're reluctant to ask.
long before i ever heard of thermoloc, or even the forum, i had an object that was impossible to clamp in the vise. i took two large wads of crumpled up aluminum foil. the irregular shape immediately dug into the aluminum and held very nicely when the jaws were snugged up.

Dani Girl · Sep 17, 2015

6 odd hrs in and have this tone show :thinking:

Dani Girl · Sep 17, 2015

Next to my favorite casting for size reference.

Man it is so fun engraving steel that's not running away from you.

don hicks · Sep 17, 2015

Dani;
Thanks for posting this, it is always interesting when the engraver tells how long it took to get a project finished or to some point in it completion. I always underestimate the time involved. I think it makes me more patient with my progress in this art form.
Cheers
Don

Dani Girl said:
6 odd hrs in and have this tone show :thinking:

silverchip · Sep 17, 2015

Another alternative is chasers cement. It is basically pitch with different additives such as powdered pigment and rendered fat for emulsifier. Depending on the amounts of ingredients determines it use and stability at room temps.There are some that when they are cool are very brittle and some that are even sticky like tar.The one that I use is fairly dense and has some resiliency at room temp in a our mild climate. To use it I warm it with a heat gun and can place articles in it directly or use a layer of masking tape on the article to prevent the eventuality of having pitch stuck on or in places I don't want it to go. In your case with a knife that is odd shaped,I would recommend taping the wood with masking tape or taping every where but where you would be engraving , warming the pitch in a shallow rectangular container that can be held in your vise and placing it in the warmed pitch leaving most of the upper portion exposed. A block like the one that Mitch was showing with a depression cut into it would be great as it can be held at odd angles and allow you to access those curved surfaces. To remove it, place it in a freezer for 20 min. or so ,remove it and give it a quick rap with a hammer to break it out of the pitch and peel off the tape to expose the protected surfaces. save the pitch that flakes off at removal and recycle it for the next step or project.

Help, please: A challenge to hold and engrave

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