Question: blackening techniques paint versus patina

jbrayout · Aug 23, 2015

Hello, I want to thank everyone for posting ideas and pictures, I can't believe how much the information you share helps my engraving.
I have been using the paint suggested by the tips archive to darken the background and shading. Then spray with an product called PYMII (acrylic). On heavily used pieces like rings the paint wears off within a short time period.
Would I be better off using liver of sulfur or another product on these types of items? Will it damage the shading too much when I use a light sanding paper to wipe away excess patina?
If you have any ideas on how to protect the paint I would really appreciate it.
I will post pictures once I am not able to catch my own mistakes. Then, hopefully, I will be ready to understand your suggestions.

peteb · Aug 24, 2015

I have always thought that the practice of painting or dyeing the backgrounds of the finely crafted pieces displayed here detracts from them. I have been using niobium which blackens with a simple heat treatment with a very tough oxide. Therefore silver clad niobium could offer a solution to those artists making jewelry. What is the gage of silver that is being most used today? How deep do you engrave it? Would anyone pay more to get a superior material?

monk · Aug 24, 2015

sanding after engraving-- ? not a good thing at all. you take so much care in the engraving process, why degrade it with sanding ? as for patination, many different chemicals from which to choose. choice would depend on the metal in question. in the case of patination, one size does not fit all !

silverchip · Aug 24, 2015

Here's some free info!!!! I have used LOS and and printers ink afterwords for a nice flat black that does well over time. After LOS , I use 2500 wet or dry automotive polishing paper to remove the excess patina and then printers ink diluted with lighter fluid, let it dry and wipe off the excess ink then hand polish with a sunshine polishing cloth for a great antiqued blackend engraving

Brian Marshall · Aug 24, 2015

So now we are gonna preface all the "free" info by "labeling" it...? Pretty funny...

Is there somebody on here that's gonna keep count? (never mind, I guess there is - from the posts on the "Me, myself, and I" thread)

Brian

Dani Girl · Aug 25, 2015

monk said:
sanding after engraving-- ? not a good thing at all. you take so much care in the engraving process, why degrade it with sanding ? as for patination, many different chemicals from which to choose. choice would depend on the metal in question. in the case of patination, one size does not fit all !

This is good advice. (That said I do the complete opposite and use chemicals to blacken and then sand it off. I am not bothered by the effects of careful sanding on my shading. Very careful sanding with a hard backing and anywhere from 600-2000 grit Rhinowet sandpaper.) I use Caswell Stainless blackener, Birchwood Casey brass black and cold steel blackener.

Speedball oil based screen printing ink is still one of my favorites... but I really like that you don't lose any detail with the blackeners vs paint where some degree of 'puddling' always happens. I pat it with a tissue to get as much of it out as I can and then wipe the top clean

(you're probably better off listening to people who know what they're doing though)

oiseau metal arts · Aug 25, 2015

listen to all advice.... try what thy say... experiment... choose what works best for what you/customer wants.

there is no one size fits all.

enjoy the journey of learning new things.

jbrayout · Aug 25, 2015

Thanks for all the information, hope to post some work soon.

jbrayout · Aug 25, 2015

Hello Dani,
I have never used any of the chemicals you mentioned. I (so far) only use sterling silver, what colors do these chemicals that you mentioned create? I am looking for something that creates more gray or lighter black than the paint.
Thanks

silverchip · Aug 25, 2015

If you want more grey, stick with just liver of sulfur.

monk · Aug 25, 2015

silverchip said:
Here's some free info!!!! I have used LOS and and printers ink afterwords for a nice flat black that does well over time. After LOS , I use 2500 wet or dry automotive polishing paper to remove the excess patina and then printers ink diluted with lighter fluid, let it dry and wipe off the excess ink then hand polish with a sunshine polishing cloth for a great antiqued blackend engraving

hey chip : what is los ? never heard of that.

Silberschweif · Aug 25, 2015

I think the yellow and the white powder 1:1 and burned to stinky LOS
I use Pariser Oxyd http://boley.de/shop/4414.mit-bund/507760.pariser-oxyd
sorry donÂ´t know the english name
My wife has prohibited me to make LOS at Home cause itÂ´s too stinky

monk · Aug 25, 2015

yeah. if you experiment with the liver of sulfur ( i think i just answered my question about los) if watered down, with care , you can get some interesting effects. when diluting the stuff, keep notes, and test on scrap, not the real deal. i use birch wood casey a good bit. it must be done carefully, so as to not go beyond your goal. i have done quite a few coffin plates of copper. to get the old,worn & weathered look, birch wood is great. it's good on brass. i don't think i ever used it on silver.

jbrayout · Aug 25, 2015

Thanks for all the ideas.

Chujybear · Aug 26, 2015

Plaster cente will give a nice light patina. And has the ability to be selective.

Dani Girl · Aug 28, 2015

Those chemicals I mentioned I use to blacken engraving.

I also have a chemical which turns brass green, an interesting effect... a little more flaky than i'd like but when it's in the background that's ok.
On brass, copper, or bronze.
Brass black you could get a deep brown out of if you wanted to dilute it probably... Birchwood Casey brand

On Steel
also their steel blackener paste and liquid are good. Paste if you want control on surface area, liquid if you want absolute black in the backgrounds. On the smooth surface it doesn't go black,... more grey with hints of colours... interesting stuff

If you want light greys maybe you could just try etching the metal with whatever is good for etching whatever you're working in

Stainless Steel
Caswell brand Stainless Steel Blackener, (available in oz... no idea elsewhere)

Make sure you post us some pictures of your experiments and your findings, pet likes and dislikes, etc.

monk · Aug 28, 2015

anybody ever use antimony pentachloride ? works to a nice green on brass. don't know about it on the other metals. there's volumes printed on colorizing metals. like engraving, such can take one to an entirely different world ! ask anyone that sculpts bronze.

Brian Marshall · Aug 28, 2015

Read the MSDS on some of that stuff. Don't eat whilst playing with patina chemicals.

And consuming alcohol in a shop is not a really wise idea. You get lax, make mistakes, and can't run very fast when you may need to...

Brian

Question: blackening techniques paint versus patina

jbrayout

Member

peteb

Elite Cafe Member

monk

Moderator

silverchip

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Brian Marshall

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Dani Girl

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

oiseau metal arts

Elite Cafe Member

jbrayout

Member

jbrayout

Member

silverchip

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

monk

Moderator

Silberschweif

Elite Cafe Member

monk

Moderator

jbrayout

Member

Chujybear

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Dani Girl

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

monk

Moderator

Brian Marshall

~ Elite 1000 Member ~

Latest posts

Sponsors