New and interested in learning

Hi, I've been lurking and reading trying to figure out what I need to get started practicing at home and just have a few questions.

First, I intend to engrave (ultimately) small flat pieces of metal generally no more than 1-1/4 inches in diameter (probably copper, brass, and possibly sterling silver, maybe steel at some point). I'd like to be able to do words in different fonts, initials, and small pictures like simple clip art. I will not be engraving larger items such as guns, knives, etc and really am not interested in the scroll designs except as practice.

This is what I intend to buy to start with: Lindsay push graver and sharpener "kit" (that's probably the wrong word but it comes all together) and then it says I can get an extra two M42 graver blanks with it so I guess I will add that. Do I need to get more of those or a different kind? I'm not exactly sure about that. Also, I know I need a vise, so I was going to either get the Lindsay low profile vise or the GRS standard size. I thought about the micro size but it seems a little small. Do I also need a turntable? I'm not going to be using a microscope right now, I already have an Optivisor so I'll start with that.

Later I may upgrade to an airgraver and a microscope if needed but am I on the right track so far?

Many thanks!

Yes, I would advise getting a spare graver blank or two. Sharpen them all at once. Use them until they are all dull and repeat.

You will need a turntable with the Lindsay low profile vise. It has no bearings. If you go back on the Lindsay site you will see that he has a source for the potters turntable listed and it is more economical than the one he makes himself.

I am currently using that setup myself for jewelry to midrange sized items and so far, I've not found reason to complain about anything.

M42 is a good middle of the road choice. Yes, the GRS micro vise is kinda limited to smaller items the size of rings and such.

The optivisor is fine - until you get a little age on you - I used one daily into my forties... and at that point had to make a decision. I went for a scope and made it for another 20+ years.


You are on the right track so far.

Best advice I can give you, is to take your time - don't rush, learn to draw, set up a regular practice routine and stick to it.


Brian

Oh okay, maybe I'll get the GRS vise then since it says it has bearings. Thanks for the advice! Looking forward to getting started. Currently I do metal stamping and rotary engraving as a business so this will be for fun for now, may look into selling things later down the road. It's not important right now though.

The lindsay template systems are great, but I don't think he makes one yet for hand pushing.

Some people like the Lindsay Geometry templates for hand pushing, but most seem to feel the geometry creates too much resistance for hand pushing, leading to slips and worn out muscles and joints. Use the search function, check tips archive for more info. And look at Sam Alfano' push videos.

If you plan on hand pushing, I think you are better of with the GRS Dual Angle fixture.

For a vice check Ebay for a used one in the 12 to 15 lb range. Plenty big enough for small items. I think you can get a good one for under $300 with shipping.

The package he (Lindsay) is selling includes a manual push graver and the sharpener together, it says 110 degrees. Is that a bad angle for hand pushing? Ah, I don't know, maybe I should just get the airgraver. I'll have to read a little more. Appreciate the advice, thanks!

I´ve bought the lindsay handpush set with the chissel holder ...
I like it but its way to expensive for what you got.
If you want to start out more economic buy the grs Hand push graver handle for qc Holder and a view gravers. Buy a dual angle Sharpening system and the diamond lap holder for drill presses from lindsay and a view diamond laps from china
chris

mr marshall has great advice-- the pencil always proves to be the most valuable tool. as for gravers-- only 1 will fit in a given hand piece or holder. but if you get serious, as most here do- you may end up with 2 or 3. shown are half of my graver collection. get a looseleaf. take notes.avail yourself of the free info here. good luck.

monk said:

mr marshall has great advice-- the pencil always proves to be the most valuable tool. as for gravers-- only 1 will fit in a given hand piece or holder. but if you get serious, as most here do- you may end up with 2 or 3. shown are half of my graver collection. get a looseleaf. take notes.avail yourself of the free info here. good luck.

Click to expand...

btw: the color scheme of my holder is patented. none may use this without written permission !

Read and do your homework before you buy equipment. When I signed up a member suggested Meeks book "The Art of Engraving" I found the cheapest at Brownells and cheaper than used on eBay, read and study everything you can and START practicing your drawing before you buy equipment.

If you can draw the designs and sharpen the gravers, that with practice will get you where you want to go. Both take a lot of PRACTICE, without PRACTICE you will most likely get frustrated.

for an overall "intro to the art", the book by james b. meeks, "the art of engraving", is just about biblical for a newbie. the greatest value (to me) i believe, is the variety of disciplines mr. meeks presents to the reader. if nothing else, it gives one a peek at most of what one must master to become an engraver. videos are great, but none i've ever seen covers as much turf as does the meeks book. many newbies got their start with this book, myself included.

The other good overall beginner's book is Engraving Historic Firearms by John Schippers. It's actually a lot more general purpose than the title implies and, being about 40 years newer covers some of what's changed in the last few decades.

The Lindsay point geometry works beautifully for air-assisted. Some people find that it's not as good for hand push, seeming to make engraving just a bit tougher. I barely do any hand push so I can't say.

I think you'll wind up doing some scrolls - they're actually just about the easiest thing to do. All you have to master are scroll backbones (probably the toughest), curved lines, S lines, hooked lines, and shading lines (light, tapered lines). Straight lines are for borders and are another thing that's actually tougher than you'd think.

Engraving is fun, but very addictive.

So far I've ordered the standard vise from GRS along with a push graver handle and sharpened graver, and a 2000 bench stone to keep it sharp for a little while so that I can practice a bit and decide what to do next. Most likely my next purchase will be the power hone along with the dual angle sharpener and then (likely) a power assisted system of one sort or the other. In the meantime I have purchased and watched Sam's sharpening video and ordered the James Meek book and read a bunch more posts here. I've done scroll saw work in the past and some (very little) wood carving so I'm hopeful it will help with the learning curve here.

Terrie

http://gunengraving.org/index.html

Check it out...

I'm also a beginner, Here's how I recently started, if this helps.

I enrolled in the Ornamental Hand Engraving Class at New Approach School for Jewelers, taught by Jason Machiafava.
In the class I received two gravers, GRS QC-1 Onglette, and GRS QC-40 Flat graver, and two rosewood graver handles.
We learned basics and essentials. The first day we practiced cutting lines, straight and curved, mostly with the onglette, then varying cuts with the flat graver until we had the skills necessary to make a wheat leaf pattern.
Those two gravers make the majority of cuts in ornamental work, so they were a good start.
We learned how to sharpen them by hand using a diamond stone, 2/0 and 4/0 paper.
I used a Leica a60f microscope, and I absolutely loved it. I enjoyed seeing the metal move before the graver up close, and it helped make my cuts cleaner, I think.
The week continued with more designs and shapes, eventually to cutting simple western scrolls and bright cuts etc.
Jason is amazing, by the way.

I came home with enough of the skills to start playing around at it and figuring more things out on my own.
What I got for my home/workplace setup:
GRS standard ball vise, ordered from Gesswein. As our store is part of IJO we were able to get the vise and workholding accessories shipped for an outstanding price.
I hold the vise on the ball vise shelf attached to a bench, on a benchmate mount.
I started cutting at home using my visor, but we ordered a Meiji EMZ-5 with the acrobat stand. At first I didn't like it because of the aggressive angle my neck was at looking through it, but I adjusted it so it was more tolerable, and now I'm used to it. I prefer the Leica, but use the Meiji everyday and have come to enjoy that too.
A decent pair of dividers are necessary too.
I made a scribe using an old broken bur, and use it on most of what I cut. I made it a sharp point, and then rounded it slightly and polished it, and use it for burnishing too.

In terms of books, I ordered Meeks book, Drawing and Understanding scroll design, advanced scroll design [which is entirely useless to me as I barely understand the simple scrolls currently], and more recently Sam's Drawing Scrolls video and Engraving Scrolls video.

Meeks' book is pretty comprehensive, definitely get that.

I've watched Sam's videos about a dozen times since I got them a week or so ago, and that alone has helped me understand scrolls enough to draw them and begin cutting them. I definitely recommend them. He's fantastic also. Very thorough teaching, and easy to understand.


So far, I only have cut using the hand push method, and I'm still trying to figure that out. I mainly cut copper and brass, but have cut a bit of scrap silver too. For flat practice plates I found that 30 micron [yellow/green] polishing paper works very nice to create a uniform finish to draw a design onto.
We have a gravermax here but it is still in the box, and we're looking to move things around to make room for it. The box hasn't been opened yet.

I hope this helps you!

Thanks so much, that is very kind of you to post that, it is definitely helpful! I wish there was a class around here, I'd love to take one. I've taught myself lots of different things over the years and rarely ever found classes to help but of course when I did it made things a lot easier. If I see any in Florida that are anywhere near here within any reasonable distance I'll be signing up for sure! I'll be starting out with an Optivisor because I already use one for my metal stamping. I never use anything higher than 1.75 magnification for that because I find it really hard to deal with the shorter focal length on the higher mag, so not sure how I would like a scope. Something to try though at some point.

Thanks again!
Terrie

I also looked for classes near me, and was unsuccessful, so I traveled to Tennessee for a week and did the class there. I found it to be very helpful!
I hope you find everything you need and have a blast!!

Ray Cover occasionally travels out that way. Contact him and see?


B.

Thanks, I sent a message via his website asking if he has plans for classes in Florida. I noticed he was here early this year so hopefully he will be back!