Lettering transfer idea/question...

mitch · Jul 18, 2015

Hi all-

A friend is completely restoring/rebuilding a pre-'64 Mod70 and has asked me to engrave the fairly extensive lettering on the barrel. He has another crisp factory barrel to use as a pattern. I was thinking that a really sharp image is usually easier to get with a smoke print than a charcoal impression and was wondering if anybody ever tried just using the negative as a transfer? instead of the usual black letters, cutting out the 'white space' in the black background. one potential drawback is that i usually use a plain paper laser printer transfer method, which means the paper is fused to the toner, so less toner (finer lines) is generally better because the paper releases more easily with less chance of damage to the image.

pros & cons anybody? :tiphat:

Brian Marshall · Jul 18, 2015

Maybe take the smoke print, scan it into the computer and manipulate/reverse the black & white?

Then print & transfer the positive?

Brian

DKanger · Jul 18, 2015

Mitch,
When I took Brian's class, I had brought along an English lock and wanted to practice engraving the pattern on it. Henry, his apprentice at the time, and myself took a smoke print of the engraving. We taped it to white paper and scanned it into the computer as a jpeg. We opened the jpeg, selected it, and cut it out, and pasted it as a new transparent selection. Then we made it a negative and saved it. Only the pattern was visible as black and everything else was transparent. We opened this file, made a mirror image of it and printed it. Then transferred it with acetone.

These days, I do essentially the same thing except I print it on clear mylar for achive purposes and keep it in a pocketed notebook (the kind you store baseball cards in). Then when I want to use it, I can just scan the image off the mylar and print it on a Tom White transfer sheet. Don't have to mirror it since the mylar is transparent. You just choose which side you want to use by flipping it over when you scan it.

Barry Lee Hands · Jul 18, 2015

Mitch, you might consider prepping the barrel to be engraved with red sctotchbrite in a swirling pattern,
Then rub speedball ink into the lettering on the other barrel, and then burnish a piece of clear packing tape to pick up the lettering. And use that to transfer to the other barrel.

Brian Marshall · Jul 18, 2015

There's also the black or white transfer wax or Dubber's chapstick/graphite with tape methods...

Let us know which one works best for you.

B.

Already got a PM on this... think black shoe polish - for a quick (& messy) black transfer wax.

I made both black and white waxes many many years ago, and no I don't remember exactly what went in 'em.

mitch · Jul 18, 2015

maybe i should have been more clear- the impression quality, reversing neg to pos or vice versa, making a hi-res transfer, etc., is not really my concern, i was just wondering if anybody had experience engraving a pattern- lettering, in particular- by cutting away the 'white space' within the transferred toner or whatever, as opposed to our more usual way of cutting/retracing over the black image. it would seem there may even be an advantage to doing it this way, as the actual transferred image would remain largely untouched, not flaking away as you go.

in other words, we virtually always either draw black-on-white, or use a computer to generate black-on-white images or lettering, then transfer black toner or ink onto the lighter 'white' metal background, then cut away the transferred black areas to make our engraving. i'm thinking of cutting away the 'white' areas, treating the transferred image like a stencil. anybody ever tried it this way?

Brian Marshall · Jul 18, 2015

May have done... don't remember. (meaning I was probably not too awfully impressed maybe)

Try it - and tell us whether it's the "Moschetti Way" forevermore - or just for this job?

B.

"groan"... and if it works better, then everbody's gonna hafta test out makin' negatives outta positives... to tired already to even think of that.

But, as they say - there's always some good or profit that comes from things that look bad at first. Right?

Unfortunately, the profit in this case would come from more consumption of printer ink. Anyone here got stock in those companies? Like Mitch, maybe?

An Olympic sized swimming pool filled with printer ink would cost $5.9 billion (yes, with a "b"). Go look it up...

Somewhere there's also a chart of comparative values of filled 55 gal drums. Gold, platinum, silver, copper, aluminum, cocaine, heroin, alcohol, gasoline, milk, crafted beer, printer ink, etc.

Then again, maybe it's just the liquids? Nap time.

dlilazteca · Jul 18, 2015

I've used the smoke pull before, and I was not to fond of it, there is more transfer area and its not always that crisp since you have to make sure and burnish 100 percent, vs a regular transfer where you can focus on certain areas when burnishing. I hope this helps.

In other words don't use as is, make a negative from the smoke pull.

If placement is your main focus id use a inkjet and clear transparency transfer method.

Saludos,
Carlos

JMiller · Jul 18, 2015

Brian Marshall said:
An Olympic sized swimming pool filled with printer ink would cost $5.9 billion (yes, with a "b"). Go look it up...

Printer ink also cost more than blood by volume and more than caviar by weight?

Sam · Jul 18, 2015

I think I understand you correctly. When I use transfer wax for a transfer, I transfer the negative space around the design or lettering and not the lettering itself. I apply the wax in a way that it doesn't go into the cuts, so I'm transferring the negative space as opposed to the positive.

Dulltool · Jul 19, 2015

Your customer could have his new barrel roll stamped with a new address, line patent dates and the Winchester name. That's if he is looking for a original factory look...... It's like only 60 bucks.

Just thinking out loud,

mitch · Jul 19, 2015

Dulltool said:
Your customer could have his new barrel roll stamped with a new address, line patent dates and the Winchester name. That's if he is looking for a original factory look...... It's like only 60 bucks.

Just thinking out loud,

I've never heard of this. A new barrel can be rollmarked with authentic 1950s vintage Winchester lettering?

tdelewis · Jul 19, 2015

Try Turnbull Mfg. They do roll stamping of barrels and specialize in restorations.

Dulltool · Jul 19, 2015

Yes..... We have a gunsmith here in Washington state that has many many different roll stamps for firearms.

Dulltool · Jul 19, 2015

Mitch....
It looks like he relocated to the state of Tennessee...... GUNFANCY.COM his name is Dale.

Hope this helps,

mitch · Jul 19, 2015

thanks, Dennis! i will discuss this option with my buddy.

FANCYGUN · Jul 20, 2015

"GUNFANCY" hhhmm has a certain "ring" to it

There are also people who have lettering stencils and do a nice job of photo etching company markings. I've restored original Winchester Barrel markings for a long time by using the services of Turnbull and others that have the roll dies for various guns. I'm getting ready to start a new engraving job that has a brand new barrel done to factory specs including all markings. There are times it is just not practical to use an original worn out barrel on a high end engraving job.

monk · Jul 20, 2015

Barry Lee Hands said:
Mitch, you might consider prepping the barrel to be engraved with red sctotchbrite in a swirling pattern,
Then rub speedball ink into the lettering on the other barrel, and then burnish a piece of clear packing tape to pick up the lettering. And use that to transfer to the other barrel.

barry: the ink you refer to, does that stuff dry fast ? I've experimented with the "sirchie" fingerprint ink. the stuff is quite messy. it also doesn't like to dry to any degree.

monk · Jul 20, 2015

i did engraving for a gunsmith/machinist. he would reproduce markings of any type. i never had a need for such service, but he did some very good work of that type. he sold his business about 15-20 years ago. this guy was a magician. he could create a roll if needed. not sure how, or how pricey, but he could do it.

Lettering transfer idea/question...

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