Question: Layout size

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As many as I first designed the layout in a bigger size and then reduce it since I using a computer to the correct size. I have experimented drawing layout in 5 times the size down to 1.5 times the size. I have found that both methods have their advantages and disadvantages, and right now I'm in a period where I think 3 times the size suits me best.
How do you do?
 

monk

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some stuff i just direct draw- and correct a hundred times till i think it's right. if i do a drawing on paper to downsize in the computer,i usually do as large as possible, scan, then downsize in corel, then off to the printer for transfer. i do a lot of repetitive stuff, quick money work layout on a pantograph. i usually cut the panto templates 3x-5x. all depends on what it's for. the diamond drag trace can be standalone for low budget. the trace out can also be gone over with a graver if the cust. wants to spend more money. i choose the size to really work best with what i'm doing.
 
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mitch

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it depends on a few things. if i'm just working out a design that i'll be redrawing by hand onto the metal (maybe compound curve unsuitable for using a transfer), i'll work at 200%, BUT must remain mindful that 200% increase in linear dimension = 400% in actual area so one must avoid putting in too much detail that won't scale back down at 25%. in general, i usually go with 150% to split the diff.

sometimes i'll work at a larger size so that my line widths/weights will be extra fine when reduced to actual size for transferring. some transfer methods work best with finer lines = less toner adhered to paper and available to bleed = better, cleaner release to metal surface.
 

monk

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monk, I work with pantographs quite a bit too, and fall into the 3x and 4x the most.

do you make your own templates ? i make all my own. i've tried just tracing over a paper drawing, but do not like that way.
 

peteb

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Designs transfered by panto 4:1 from paper Repetitive bezel layouts i generate 3:1 on computer and send PDF to Boxcar press for a polymer plate to use as the template. I purchased a new Preis with spindle which I love for this purpose.
 

monk

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Designs transfered by panto 4:1 from paper Repetitive bezel layouts i generate 3:1 on computer and send PDF to Boxcar press for a polymer plate to use as the template. I purchased a new Preis with spindle which I love for this purpose.
cool stuff you do, dude !
 

silvermon

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do you make your own templates ? i make all my own. i've tried just tracing over a paper drawing, but do not like that way.

Monk,

I do make my own templates. When I first used a pantograph (1987 I started with a Green 2D and now I have 7 different machines) I used photo-etched templates from a company in El Segundo, CA. I found it is quite easy to slip out of the pattern with photo-etched templates. I have since made my own by using many techniques including a dental grinder to cut acrylic, used steel stamps to chase a pattern into steel or aluminum, and used a bandsaw to cut out pieces of a pattern and built it up on a base plate. All these techniques work with both good and bad aspects to the results. My favorite method is to use hammer and chisel engraving on O-1 steel plate (the reason to use this is because the pattern can be polished a high degree making tracing much easier) for something I expect to reuse a lot and Starrett carbon steel plate for regular jobs. Longer time to complete, but produces the best results. I also will use brass plate for something I don't expect to repeat very much. Biggest problem engraving a pattern is holding the plate. Often times it might be 5" x 12", sometimes much bigger.

Dan
 

monk

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Monk,

I do make my own templates. When I first used a pantograph (1987 I started with a Green 2D and now I have 7 different machines) I used photo-etched templates from a company in El Segundo, CA. I found it is quite easy to slip out of the pattern with photo-etched templates. I have since made my own by using many techniques including a dental grinder to cut acrylic, used steel stamps to chase a pattern into steel or aluminum, and used a bandsaw to cut out pieces of a pattern and built it up on a base plate. All these techniques work with both good and bad aspects to the results. My favorite method is to use hammer and chisel engraving on O-1 steel plate (the reason to use this is because the pattern can be polished a high degree making tracing much easier) for something I expect to reuse a lot and Starrett carbon steel plate for regular jobs. Longer time to complete, but produces the best results. I also will use brass plate for something I don't expect to repeat very much. Biggest problem engraving a pattern is holding the plate. Often times it might be 5" x 12", sometimes much bigger.

Dan

wow ! you got me beat-- i only have one. i used aluminum early on. i now use common engraving plastic. 6x12" is my normal size. i get better templates with it cutting with a # 53, or 54 round graver. acrylic is way too fussy for me. i used to do all the custom templates for the things remembered chain. did their work for several years till some buzzard came up with the idea of using a computer to do the work.
the largest i ever did was 29" wide,maybe 7" tall. it was a b-29 bomber done for an outlet in california.
it was tricky to do as it was in 3 separate pieces.
 

silvermon

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i now use common engraving plastic. 6x12" is my normal size. i get better templates with it cutting with a # 53, or 54 round graver. acrylic is way too fussy for me.

I've never tried engraving plastic. Never even gave it a thought. I guess it's something new I'll have to give a go to.

I read somewhere that Brian Powley was selling an inventory of Cronite I was thinking about purchasing some of.

Does the engraver's plastic hold the stylus well? Some of my machines are heavier models like Deckel KF2 and the pattern has to be both strong and smooth or the stylus will leave the pattern track and cut the pattern to s**t.

I think my out look on pattern materials is affected by the fact that quite a few of the patterns I use are three dimensional models, not tracing patterns. I use a pantograph like you do to lightly layout a pattern on an object and then engrave it, but I also do tool and die work making forging dies, mostly for flatware these days, but buckles, finials, and other stuff.
 
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Thierry Duguet

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Since I draw on the part to be engraved my layout is 1 to 1. I think that it give a better, more realistic idea about the final result, furthermore things to be engraved are seldom flat, what look good on paper may look quiet different once apply on a 3D object. For animals or portrait I will use an original drawing as large as I can make it but only with the most obvious point of reference, nose, mouth, eyes, ears.
 

monk

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Since I draw on the part to be engraved my layout is 1 to 1. I think that it give a better, more realistic idea about the final result, furthermore things to be engraved are seldom flat, what look good on paper may look quiet different once apply on a 3D object. For animals or portrait I will use an original drawing as large as I can make it but only with the most obvious point of reference, nose, mouth, eyes, ears.

you're surely right. anything on paper is far removed from the reality of what the actual object will look like (perception) on an actual 3-d, even 2-d object. it is , afterall, just a guide for what the hand will eventually do.
 
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