Critique Request Practice plate design

James Ashley

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Practice plate design (now with revisions)

G'day :)
New member here and looking for some guidance with design and ultimately cutting the plate. I have been a jeweller for 17 years so understand some technique using gravers etc from my work and stonesetting. I am submitting this design for some honest and constructive advice and criticism in the hopes that I can develop it and eventually use it to cut multiple practice plates. Once each plate is finished I will post and you guys can provide feedback as to development :biggrin:

I always remember the best learning I ever did as an apprentice was when I had to sit down and do the same jobs over and over. For me the repetition really brings the lessons home.

Anyway here's my design! Be honest but constructive and I will be happy!
 

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rayf24

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My two cents worth without getting nit picking the two larger scrolls in the upper left have lost the flow from the proceeding backbones ie they have elbow at the junctions not flowing smoothly.
But overall a good start better than some of my early tries.
 

speeedy6

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James,
I'm a new guy too and I think your drawing looks great. I think I see what Ray is talking about. Is it the top left corner and the top center scroll? They seem skinny compared to the others. Is there a name for these '' fat '' scrolls ? I'm liking these better than the tight, small English scrolls. I guess my older eyes can see more detail without taking off my glasses and sticking my nose up against the screen. I look forward to seeing the finished plate ,I'm sure with shading and final details it will really pop ! With your work, I can see my scrolls really need some work.
 

monk

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your drawing is smooth and well executed for what you did there. i would concentrate on less complicated design till you get up to speed on your cutting skills. as a beginning engraver, you may find trouble ( key word "may") in attempting to cut such a complex design. i wish you luck in your endeavors. thanks for joining and sharing what you do.
 

atexascowboy2011

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Carved in leather, this would be an awesome pattern for a billfold !
For overlaid silver engraving, to give it depth, fantastic.
With good shading, this will turn out great on flat silver/steel.
Check out Peter Mains(?), an Aussie leather carver, to get some ideas on details.
All in all, this is a classic Western(Cowboy) type design.
I'm impressed !

I need to add my opinion on the not so perfect scrolls.
They look great to my eye!
In times past, and maybe in this post, you will be critiqued on their not meeting the "Golden Mean" criteria.
SO WHAT!
The purpose of engraving is to create a visually pleasing scene.
Kinda like listening to a classically trained orchestra vs a Jazz band.
Me? I'll go for the Jazz any day.

In reply to Monk's thread, "Why go back to first grade, when you're working at the college level?"
 
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James Ashley

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So I revised the top left hand scrolls as suggested by a couple of members to see how it looked.

I like it!:thumbsup:

Anyone else have any thoughts?:)
 

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James Ashley

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atexascowboy you have no idea how much that means!

Biggest Coggan fanboy ever :)lol

Yeah I like both but did have trouble filling that top corner initially and was always slightly worried about it. I feel more comfortable with the revision but am still hoping for a few more opinions. I guess this 4th of July thing must really mean something to you guys :) :) everyone is either busy or not interested in my pic! lol
 

atexascowboy2011

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James, that exaggerated leaf of yours and Phil's reminds me of the dog "Odie" in the Garfield the cat cartoon !
Just goes to show, inspiration can be found anywhere !
 

monk

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if my vote counts, both are nice. why pick & choose ? have you done any engraving at all ? it's nice to see somebody that doesn't have to be told about the need for drawing skills !
 

atexascowboy2011

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OK, Sam, you lost me.
Could you possibly sketch out what you're talking about?
In my Texican mind reversing the leaves would mess up the flow rather than help it.
I think this is one of those times, where once I can visualize it, I go, "Oh, yeah, what was I thinking?" :beatup:
Thanks,
Jeff
 

SamW

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Number 1 is what my eye sees looking at the original sketch. Number 2 is how I would draw it (or some variation on the theme), leaves adjusted as needed.
 

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atexascowboy2011

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Yeah, I see your viewpoint, although I see the two questionable scrolls coming off of the 1 o'clock scroll.
The bottom of the two ?able scrolls had a little turbulence upon takeoff probably due to a windshear.
Looking at your takeoff from the primary supports my theory, as he just had a bobble at the start !
If you had included the 1 o'clock scroll in drawing #1, it would have worked out as it should with a smooth transition.
 

atexascowboy2011

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The one scroll that I do have a rule's problem with and have had from day 1, is the one at 8 o'clock, coming backwards off of the origin.
BUT !, it works for me in this case.

Then again Sam, look at my second byline.
Maybe I'm not quite smart enough yet to realize MY ignorance ! :shock:
 

James Ashley

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This is actually how I planned the scroll layout but maybe it doesn't work.

Monk I guess 17yrs in an associated trade and a lot of those being super interested in setting and engraving has counted for something. Thanks for the compliment. ;)
 

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monk

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This is actually how I planned the scroll layout but maybe it doesn't work.

Monk I guess 17yrs in an associated trade and a lot of those being super interested in setting and engraving has counted for something. Thanks for the compliment. ;)

apparently i goofed again. i thought you were without engraving experience. sorry about that. i'm assuming that your engraving work was mainly jewelry ?
 

James Ashley

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No engraving experience but seen and had contractors do a lot for me over the years. My stone setting experience helps as far as graver prep goes and chopping soft metal for pave work. And well the designing is part of my job as a jeweller :)
 

Andrew Biggs

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Hi James

You've done a good first time job :)

But...........

Sam is correct about the way the scroll should be flipped the other way (post #14)

The drawing you have submitted (post #17) says a lot..........see all those malformed lumps and bumps and squashed scroll outlines. They need work to make them smooth and flow a lot better.........think of those main lines as your foundation. If they are wonky, then everything else becomes wonky. If they are correct, then everything else falls into place nicely.

The main lines are everything. If the occasional leaf is a bit wonky you can get away with it and disguise it with a bit of shading and they get lost along with all the other leaves. If the main lines (in this case the scroll and big leaf backbones) are wonky, then it sticks out like dogs balls. That is the thing other engravers will always notice right off the bat.

One of the best and often overlooked ways to help you with this.........is to pencil in your background. It will completely change the look of your design. It makes a lot of faults glaringly obvious. Try it and you will instantly see what I'm talking about.

Anyway, as my school reports always used to say..........good effort but could do better :)

Keep drawing and it will all come to you with a bit of effort, a lot of practice and careful observation. You're off to a good start.

Cheers
Andrew
 

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