experiment down the drain

monk · Jun 19, 2015

when experiments fail, i never think them a loss. rather, an oportunity to learn. this one has taken me off the charts !
the other day, dani girl questioned about the wearability of anodized ti.
the pieces i posted the other day are total failures. i rubbed my thumb over one to see. the pretty purple vanished without the least finger pressure.
i used all the proper acid etch, neutralizer, and rinse. i did not add a finish to the metal at all. it was a very clean,quite light satin finish on the metal.
what's wrong ? does the ti need a mirror finish prior to the process to assure wearability ?

Ron Spokovich · Jun 19, 2015

The experiment, failure or not, to which is always attached some beneficial knowledge, is making me rethink some ideas I have on a few pairs of titanium earrings. In my case, I wonder if inlay may be better, with 24k. Maybe some of these guys, who've been successful, write these little secrets down in the dark of night in the rearmost portion of a secret cave? I'm starting to wonder. Hope it's true, that, 'where there's a will, there's a way'!

McAhron · Jun 19, 2015

I'm not sure what happened. I have done many anodized Ti knives and the finish lasts years with every day carry. I have used clear CeraKote to add extra protection.

delder · Jun 19, 2015

That's in part why I changed to Nb. I found the results with Ti to be so unpredictable. Oh sure, it turned out ok once in a while . As far as clearcote. The colors come from the way the light is refracted from the oxidized metal. Clearcote seems to change that. Also , it has to be kept clean after anodizing. The oil in our skin changes the color. A little dawn detergent brings back the colors.

monk · Jun 19, 2015

delder said:
That's in part why I changed to Nb. I found the results with Ti to be so unpredictable. Oh sure, it turned out ok once in a while . As far as clearcote. The colors come from the way the light is refracted from the oxidized metal. Clearcote seems to change that. Also , it has to be kept clean after anodizing. The oil in our skin changes the color. A little dawn detergent brings back the colors.

tyvm for the detergent idea. i'll give that a try. the batch of ti is from an industrial source, all the same batch, and i was told it was "commercial pure grade". i'll try polishing a piece. it may be that the satin finish was just too rough. till problem is solved, i'll surely not inflict a customer with any of it. where do you buy niobium ?

Beathard · Jun 19, 2015

Couldn't you spray a clear coat on top. Maybe a high gloss duracoat?

Roger B · Jun 19, 2015

Monk,

You can get Niobium from Reactive Metals Studio

Roger

peteb · Jun 20, 2015

I have been using niobium at .010 thickness for repousse, pictorial engraving, oxidizing and coloration for my jewelry line of pendants and cuffs. It needs to be captured in a setting of some kind which I make on my new Preis panto. If you oxidize, remove some or most of the black and then anodize the surface, it is not very prone to wear. I use .010 because I can get platinum clad material which most of my jewelry is made from. This will give you a paintbox that includes black (the oxide) and white (the platinum) and the anodized colors. All of my designs can be seen at http://www.iconobium.com.

monk · Jun 20, 2015

Beathard said:
Couldn't you spray a clear coat on top. Maybe a high gloss duracoat?

for sure i could. but---- if the oxidized surface is that fragile, it's not something i'd ever want to give a client if the object was for everyday use. if a wall hanger, that's different. a theory i try to maintain: i never knowingly let a problem out the door. this way, the problem never comes back to haunt me. i'm going to polish a couple pieces to see if that helps. i usually do use clear lacquer on many things, but not for something like this. sooner or later i will prevail !

monk · Jun 20, 2015

Roger B said:
Monk,

You can get Niobium from Reactive Metals Studio

Roger

thanks for that. i'll get a few pieces to play with. in the meantime, i got a vast supply of the ti. i aint in any mood to use it for dog & cat collars. i'll play with it till it works !

McAhron · Jun 20, 2015

I wonder if its your water or container your using is causing contamination. Too much minerals in the water can cause the problems your having. Use distilled. Make sure your cathode is Ti and absolutely no other metal touches anything in the immersion bath. The finish is not the problem unless the piece has been coated with something . Make certain to clean the to with acetone or alcohol before the acid bath. Also I like a long etch at voltage,30-60 seconds. You are using Multi-etch?

McAhron · Jun 20, 2015

Could you post a pic of your set up,along with a pic of you anodizing a test piece so we can see if anything stands out as the problem.

monk · Jun 21, 2015

McAhron said:
I wonder if its your water or container your using is causing contamination. Too much minerals in the water can cause the problems your having. Use distilled. Make sure your cathode is Ti and absolutely no other metal touches anything in the immersion bath. The finish is not the problem unless the piece has been coated with something . Make certain to clean the to with acetone or alcohol before the acid bath. Also I like a long etch at voltage,30-60 seconds. You are using Multi-etch?

BINGO ! maybe. i'm currently using a square of stainless steel. that my be the problem. as for water, i use distilled. thanks for this info. i'll for sure give this a go tonight.

monk · Jun 21, 2015

McAhron said:
Could you post a pic of your set up,along with a pic of you anodizing a test piece so we can see if anything stands out as the problem.

glad to do that. there's no way i can take a foto of myself whilst doing this. my wife is very near legally blind. i'll post a pic or 2 of the setup later tonight. that's a good idea. maybe some little stupid thing i'm doing. who knows !

monk · Jun 21, 2015

McAhron said:
I wonder if its your water or container your using is causing contamination. Too much minerals in the water can cause the problems your having. Use distilled. Make sure your cathode is Ti and absolutely no other metal touches anything in the immersion bath. The finish is not the problem unless the piece has been coated with something . Make certain to clean the to with acetone or alcohol before the acid bath. Also I like a long etch at voltage,30-60 seconds. You are using Multi-etch?

holy stuff ! there's the fix, maybe. i'm using a square of stainless for the cathode. my immersion time: an average of maybe 2-3 seconds. i switch off the current as soon as i see the color ! i'll be busy tonight ! tyvm for this info !

McAhron · Jun 21, 2015

Yep. You have to use titanium for the cathode and anode.

McAhron · Jun 21, 2015

Think of anodizing as molecular electroplating. Any contamination is a problem. I could not do knife grinding near the anodizing bath or the dust in the air would cause contamination.

monk · Jun 21, 2015

ok-- here's the old way i was doing it. family folks showed up unexpected. will not have time to try the good way tonight.

# 1 shows the formed ss cathode suspended on a ti wire
# 2 shows the glass tank cathode/anode separation about 5-5.5"
#3 shows the anode. part suspended in electrolyte on a ti hook.
# 4 shows a bridge rectified variac. it's tapped to produce a max of 130 vdc ( measured by digital volt meter) this variac will go to 170 volts, but i thought the 130 level would suffice. this unit is not filtered. if need be, i could add a capacitor for filtering .
# 5 shows the cathode again, this time from outside the tank.
not sure if problematic-- multi etch, neutralizer, and rinse are in plastic jars.

McAhron · Jun 22, 2015

Problem solved. Your cathode has to be titanium too.

monk · Jun 22, 2015

thanks very much for that. i probably saw that in a post sometime back, but forgot about it. won't forget this time. thanks again.

experiment down the drain

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