Graver pulling into groove RIBBON CUTTING (Turntable reply ers thanks )

Indy Joneds · May 27, 2015

Thank you all so much for your infomation on differnt turntable ideas , i have a lazy susan bearing and tried it with wood but it never felt smooth monk , sorry, the turn table i have has nylon bearings but i dont think i will ever achieve smoothness from this like i need, i will look into roller bearings , potters wheel table and car bearings . THANK YOU

Now ill keep it short ive got to go to work, im Ribbon cutting letters in brass with a 116 with a small " dub " on but ive tried with a square graver and no dub and the graver has not the control i wish for and when i go out of my original cut into the second or back in to my original from my second the graver pull itself in despite my best efforts. itdoesnt yank over all at once but its pulling . hope you can help i know practice is needed for all but it doesnt feel right thats all ? hss gravers thakx

monk · May 27, 2015

one possibility is the graver facets are out of whack. if off enough, this can cause the graver to go where it wants to go, not where you want it to go, one other possibility-- the turn rate you impart to the vise has to be exactly the same rate that the cutting is going. if these rates don't match, the metal can pile up against the graver face and cause grief. are you pushgraving, or power assist ? if you are cutting either way, the graver must remain in a fixed ( more or less ) position. the vise is to turn the metal INTO the graver point. when viewed from above, the graver should remain stationary.
another suspicion--- perhaps you need a bit more practice doing these cuts before doing the real thing.

Indy Joneds · May 27, 2015

Its power assist , i will resharpen a 116 and try . its all just practice im doing , im just practicing ribbon cutting , thought i might aswell draw the letters rather than just doing curves , this way im practicing drawing differnt letters from the engravers script/copper plate alphabet. Ive took on board the(nearly) staionary graver tip, and im turning the turntable instead. I will practice again tonight and let you know if it is just lack of skill , i will try again different speeds and maybe even go back to a less steep face , but surely my tips will start breaking again. Do you highly polish your facets . i just go to the very fine diamond stone on all but the face and heels and dub ? Cheers Monk for your reply. Ill maybe put a video if it persists but it will just be a phone one.

KCSteve · May 28, 2015

One thing that might be contributing is where you're looking. Don't look at the line you're cutting next to, look at the spot alongside it where you want the new line to go. Just as when you drive, it's important to look 'into the future' - ahead of where you are - rather than right there at the tip.

The graver will want to go over into the open space made by the adjacent line - there's less resistance there. Getting it not to is 'just' a matter of practice.

monk · May 28, 2015

this all seems to be an unmanageable bunch of crap. AT FIRST. but slowly one tiny little thing will fall in place,and the puzzle gets a bit less confusing. nothing will help, except time & practice. face angles, heel angles, no heels. all those geometries ?? it's all here but one can't do it all in one night. i polish gravers for script, and any time i want bright cuts. otherwise, i don't bother.
ask a hundred engravers how something is done. you'll likely get 25 or 30 different answers. no answer may be wrong, it' just that few of us do things the exact same way. practice will lead you to the way you like to do things.

Andrew Biggs · May 28, 2015

Don't dub the point.

Dubbing, or rounding off the point, is useful on some hard metals to prolong graver life..........but for delicate precise work or shading, it is hopeless. You want that sharp point for better control.

If you are breaking tips a lot in brass it is because of one two reasons. The brass is extraordinary hard........or your technique. 9 times out of 10 it will be technique. Hold your hand rock solid and turn the work into the graver. If you start turning your hand you will break the tip off just about every time. (just as Monk pointed out)

Cheers
Andrew

Indy Joneds · Jun 1, 2015

i was turning the vice , but i was not thinking about turning the metal into the graver , i was chasing my work with the graver , I said that i had understood that tip but evidently i had not at all , this also is more than likely the reason for my tips breaking so soon . the penny eventually dropped and things are going much better.Sorry for being a little too eager and not reading properly what people are trying to describe. Thanks Monk ,KC Andrew .

KCSteve · Jun 1, 2015

What you've just learned is exactly why live, in-person lessons are so valuable. You can read things over and over, watch video after video, but some of these little things just won't 'click'. Someone standing next to you can see what you're doing and show you the tiny difference that makes it work.

Or you can keep trying until you eventually stumble on it.

Indy Joneds · Jun 1, 2015

you show me a uk engraver course at the weekends or evenings near me kcsteve , im all ears. Im trying my best

KCSteve · Jun 2, 2015

I know GRS does classes on your side of the pond, but they're generally five days - you have to take a week off. It's a pain, but it's worth it.
Hopefully one or more of the folks in your general area will chime in with more info.
If you're really lucky someone near you will be able to have you come over for a few pointers.

Indy Joneds · Jun 3, 2015

cant find any GRS classes , can you link please ?

KCSteve · Jun 3, 2015

I don't currently see anything in the GRS Training Center other than the classes there in Emporia, KS - http://www.grstc.com/schedule
I know our Glorious Leader Sam does an occasional overseas class, perhaps he can chime in with more info.

Dave London · Jun 3, 2015

Humm
Not that you care, however I will not respond to any further posts for those whom won't reveal there location

Graver pulling into groove RIBBON CUTTING (Turntable reply ers thanks )

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