How to Help stop Graver Tip Breakage

Indy Joneds

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Hi , Im New But Im breaking Tips within minutes . the gravers are HSS . Any help or advice is much appreciated.


sticking a graver in a potato helps ? is that real or a joke ? thanks again
 

Eric Olson

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You can use a steeper face angle to get a stronger tip.
Also you can "dub" the tip by holding the graver at a steep angle against your sharpener
and making a tiny extra face at the very end of your graver.
Some oil/lubricant might also help.
 

JJ Roberts

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A 50 to 55 degree face and a 17 to 20 degree heel and good control over your tools. J.J.
 

Indy Joneds

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I dont have a ruby stone , I have a coarse fine and very fine diamond stones and a small black arkansas stone . I imagine i should use the Black arkansas in place of a ruby to try and replicate this mini 85 degree face .

So Do you guys use the potato trick ? does it stop breakage by improving the sharpness or is it just for resharpening ?

Does the heel have any say in the life of a tip ?

Very helpfull and Appreicated advice THANK YOU . i will try the mini face tomorrow
 

GTJC460

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Go to a wider geometry like a 120' vs a square, I'm assuming you are using a square as its most common and easiest to make.

Even a 105 or 110' graver is significantly stronger than a square.

The other tips are good.

When I engrave hard stainless, I keep increasing my face till it stops breaking too quickly. Sometimes you just have to chalk up the job as learning and deal with resharpening.
 

diandwill

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We all use the potato! You need to have the tip of you tongue out of the corner of your mouth, when you push it in. Left corner if you are right handed, right if left and middle can work if you are truly ambidextrous.
 

jerrywh

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You can put a very tiny flat on the bottom of the belly. I don't know what you call this but I learned it from a Frank Hendrix tip. It helps a lot.
 

DKanger

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It isn't always about the tip. There are other things that will cause them to break. Your work must be mounted rock solid. If it vibrates, you'll break a tip. If you don't release your foot pedal all the way before entering a cut, you can break a tip. If you use collets to mount your gravers and they work loose, you can break a tip. Make sure to snug em down. Also make sure the end entering the collet is square and the 4 corners are relieved.
 

KCSteve

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And of course the number one thing that breaks tips is turning the graver instead of turning the work. Turning the graver puts a side stress on the tip and will break it every time. All of the turn should be your other hand turning the vise.
 

MICHAEL

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You can put a very tiny flat on the bottom of the belly. I don't know what you call this but I learned it from a Frank Hendrix tip. It helps a lot.

I figured this out the other day after 5 years of fracturing my gravers in this area. So far 2 cylinders engraved full coverage and no breakage or resharpening. I pulled my graver across a fine India stone to achieve this. Good tip.
 

monk

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We all use the potato! You need to have the tip of you tongue out of the corner of your mouth, when you push it in. Left corner if you are right handed, right if left and middle can work if you are truly ambidextrous.

come on-- that's too much for a neubie to remember !
 

Kevin Scott

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If your techniques are wrong, no strong graver geometry will stop point breakage. But they will reduce them.

KCSteve in post #13 touched on this. Imagine the point held stationary in the end of the cut, then you turned the vise. The engraved cut will break the point. Or if you turned the graver point and held the vise stationary, the point will break.

To avoid above, you need to turn graver point and vise in unison. Someone on a forum explained it by saying the point must follow the line of the cut.

Also, improper popping out of the chip will break the point.

Try to see when and how the point is breaking.
 

JJ Roberts

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I found the Lindsay Universal 116 geometry is a strong graver that I find holds up with out any problems,one of my favorites. J.J.
 

Indy Joneds

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I am using the lindsay 116 degree graver . i will take all points onboard .

When you say put a flat on the belly could use specify where and how big exactly im not sure which part is the belly . i imagine you mean underneath the graver but if so woudnt you be grinding away your tip and greating a Tiny tiny flat graver ? or is the flat created without touching the point ?

a picture would be great ? thanks
 

JJ Roberts

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Indy,It's not flat at the tip of graver heel it's rounded ever so slight to give the tip of the graver extra strength, just lay the graver heel on 600 grit wet & dry auto paper roll it gently not to much and will give you round edge.That's what is meant by dubbing. J.J.
 

KCSteve

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The way I dub my tips is to hold the graver pointed straight down toward my finest stone and draw a 'W' about 1/4" high with very light pressure.
 

jerrywh

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Indy,It's not flat at the tip of graver heel it's rounded ever so slight to give the tip of the graver extra strength, just lay the graver heel on 600 grit wet & dry auto paper roll it gently not to much and will give you round edge.That's what is meant by dubbing. J.J.
JJ that is the same thing as I was talking about only I put a flat on instead of a slight round. It helps a great deal either way. I do it on a ceramic or a 1200 grit plate.
 

Dani Girl

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I have skimmed through all the comments and well... let me confuse you by adding another one.

Simplest I can say is that if using your universal 116 graver you are still chipping the tip out. Try putting something 2-4mm thick or so beneath the template but not under the stone and sharpen both your face and your heels at a higher angle... more importantly don't turn unless you're running... and get a good feel for the angle you have to hold the tool to get it to walk forwards happily without digging in or slipping out. What are you cutting into? The belly which you grind with the smaller template should be ground as you usually would and keep all those edges sharp, the dubbing the tip bit is done when sharpening the face... lift the template up a little higher and drag on the face side accross the stone... it just takes off the really thin fine tip off and gives you less to break off.

Did you get the graver super hot when you were sharpening... maybe the temper's been messed with?

Good luck, (we all struggle with this)

Danae.
 
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