Question: Punch Dot Background - How to

Latergaters

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I took the GRS basic class I know how to do a fairly decent stippled background but I've been interested in other textures (saw a burlap texture on here I love). I want to start using a punch dot. I've read what James Meek has to say on the subject (pg 137) , checked the iGraver Tutorials and did a search of the subject but actual how to is eluding me. I have three kids five and under so I don't get a whole lot of uninterupted time to search the boards.

Can someone please point me to a post or link that has that information?

Thanks in advance.
 

Brian Marshall

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Then you might also want to investigate shaping, hardening and tempering your own background tools?

Not a very difficult process...

Start by locating a source for tool steel rods and square stock. I use MSC and McMaster, but there are dozens of them.

For simplicity at the start - stick with water hardening tool steel. After you have things down a bit you can play with the oil hardening steels...

You may be able to find a supplier that will cut the stock to size (length) for a nominal charge. If so, that will take care of the first step.


You will need a torch. People do get it done with those hand held bottle propane torches, but if you can beg/borrow/buy an oxygen/gas torch it will be much faster.

Cutting, filing and sanding can be done by hand if you have no access to power saws, grinders and belt sanders.


Once you have some stock in hand, and a few files - let us know and either I or someone else on here will walk you through it.


Brian
 
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fegarex

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The Ngraver dot background punches are the best for firearms. They are cheap enough not to mess around and try to make them yourself unless you like to do that sort of thing. Also, the punches fit the GRS handpieces. Just make sure they have no burrs one them. Or use a hammer. Many people like to touch the edges of the dots for the best look and it does look really nice but many of the older guns would overlap and the result still looked fine.
 

Latergaters

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TAlso, the punches fit the GRS handpieces. Just make sure they have no burrs one them. Or use a hammer.

That was one of my big questions. From what I was reading it needed to be done with a hammer one at a time which makes me think it can't be done under a scope. I wasn't sure if it could be accomplished with my GraverSmith. I was hoping to find a video or something on Youtube but no luck.
 

fegarex

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You can use a hammer or handpiece under the scope but it requires some fancy tipping. You will learn it or if your eyes are good lose the scope for this part.
I think you need to call to order them. I don't think he has an online option.
 

Andrew Biggs

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From what I was reading it needed to be done with a hammer one at a time which makes me think it can't be done under a scope.

To use under a microscope, tilt the vise slightly and use a chasing hammer. One or two small taps does the job....If you have a .3 objective lens then distance is not a problem. With a .5 lens then it's a bit tighter but quite doable by tilting the vise as I mentioned.

There are two ways of doing it.

Random......so you adopt the scattergun approach and just randomly put down a background. You see this on a lot of older guns and it can look okay on budget work

Precise........one pearl put next to the other for total coverage. This looks great on classy guns and gives a beautiful soft satin finish to the background.

My only problem with the NGraver dot punches is that they are all to big. My own personal preference is for a #1 or #0 punch according to the jewellery sizes.

But like all these thing........you will learn more about doing it. All the advise in the world won't help you. Picking up a punch and hammer will as it will answer all your questions.


Background punches....are easy to make. It's just a matter of texturing them to whatever you want and then heat treating them. Heat treating is the tricky part and it takes a few punches to get the hang of it.

The only way you are ever going to learn anything about engraving and tool making is by doing it. Make the mistakes, pay the piper and gain the necessary skills :)

Cheers
Andrew
 

fegarex

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Andrew, for the watches and things the Ngraver may in fact be too big. For the usual "American" style engraving on a firearm the #1 and #2 punches are fine. The jewelry versions work fine too for soft metal. I've tried many times to make my own and fail for some reason. At least I can never get them as tough as the Ngraver.
 

Andrew Biggs

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Yeah, I hear what you are saying ,Rex.........on harder metal it pays to have a bunch of the jewellery beading tools. Still, they are cheap enough. :)

It's a pity that NGraver doesn't make a few smaller sizes as the smaller ones look very classy as a background on guns as well as other items.

Cheers
Andrew
 

mitch

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unsolicited, unpaid plug: lately i've been using some beading punches from Otto Frei on stainless steel and they are holding up phenomenally well. cheap, too.
 

Latergaters

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Thank you all. That answers a lot of my questions. I'll give them a call and order some tomorrow. Right now making my own tools isn't an option. I have limited time for practice and spending a few dollars allows me to use the time I do have cutting. Today grandma took the kids so I had a few hours alone and it killed me because I spent the first hour doing some badly needed organizing and cleaning.

I have been tilting quite a bit to do the stippling. It seems like I'm able to get more consistent coverage/texture than when I try to do it level.
 

Silberschweif

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if you buy the beading tools don´t forget to buy a fion plate too you can resharpen the beading tools with them. But you have to aneel the steel at first.

sorry i only know a german source for it but Im sure you can find it at Otto Frei or Rio Grande as well

http://www.flume.de/de/korneisenfion-4420271.html

chris
 
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DakotaDocMartin

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if you buy the beading tools don´t forget to buy a fion plate too you can resharpen the beading tools with them. But you have to anneal the steel at first.

When you can buy a new beading tool for less than a dollar, is resharpening them worth the time and energy? I just toss them out.
 

diandwill

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I think it was Chris DeCamillas that suggested epoxying a 1pt (1.2mm) single cut diamond, point out (or table down) onto a flex shaft shank and recutting the concave on wornout beading tools.
 

monk

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i think weldon lister posted a thread on how to create your own texture punches. this was a long time ago, if you want to do yer own round punches, gesswein sells HARDENED steel blocks with a series of small round beads above the surface. using this block. you'll never need to run out of punches. they are interesting to make if you're into that sort of thing.
 

Brian Marshall

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You should know how to anneal, use a beading block (own one), reharden and temper - even if you "are NOT into that sort of thing"...

Here's why: It can save your bacon.


It's 10pm on Sunday night. You made a major misjudgment as to how many hours you had left on finishing ths job.

You planned to be done 3 hours ago. (or was it planned to finish it yesterday?)

There's only a square inch of background left to cover. Easy enough, right?

The customer is gonna be there to pick the job up at 10 am Monday morning. You might even get some sleep!



But all of a sudden your background punch is getting dull, or worse yet it chips.

Maybe because the phase of the moon is bad or maybe you're coming into a hardened area?


You reach into your toolbox to grab a fresh one...

And there are no more. You forgot to reorder them.


Brian


Of course, just like making a slip and skidding across a piece of work - this almost NEVER happens. I wrote this especially for those engravers who never make a slip... ;)
 
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